I think one point that’s not talked about enough in the concealed carry enough is that EVERYBODY who carries a firearm is potentially open carrying.
Now I’m one of those guys who’s not terribly comfortable with open carry. I’ve done it. I had a good time doing it, I’m not comfortable doing it as part of my day-to-day, even in places like Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont which are OC friendly states that I frequent.
Its not that I only want to exercise my rights from the proverbial back of the buss, or the proverbial “blacks only” restroom. But that firearms activism is just one part of my life, and exercising my rights from a jail cell, or a courtroom in a wrongful arrest/seizure are things that could put a huge crimp on my life. And frankly I have concerns about exercising my rights with a mouthful of asphalt. Could be that I’m a former anti and I still have a ways to go, could be that I’m a Massachusetts resident and people who open carry are punished quite severely by the system dispute the practice not actually being against the law.
There are several documented cases of people being punished for legal open carry in Massachusetts. Its 100% legal here if you have a permit, but the bottom line is the Police can chose to not renew your permit for any reason, and open carry is a pretty consistent one.
Here’s the big issue that pertains to ALL of us who carry. The people who I know of who have lost their permits for open carry DID NOT DO IT INTENTIONALLY!
Read that last part again. Open carry does not just mean intentional open carry. In states like Florida or Texas that ban open carry you can be punished for walking around in an exposed holster like the activists and people who prefer open carry do…or it could be you concealment rig where something goes wrong.
Yep if you “Print excessively” you can be punished.
If your garment is moved to expose the gun by wind or accidental circumstances.
By people doing inappropriate things, like say the creepy guy attempting to look down your shirt or up your skirt and discovers your gun rather than your bits and pieces.
The list goes on, but I think we can all agree that there is NO concealment method that is 100% secure, and no matter how you feel about open carry, if you have an accidental exposure in a place where you can be punished for it, you’re at the mercy of the system.
So we should ALL be in favor of making open carry legal, and preferably ALL carry legal without a permit. Once we get there THEN will be the best time to discuss how and how not to carry.
+1, Weerd.
Oh, did I mention that NC is an open carry state? 🙂
I forgot to mention another reason why I’m uncomfortable open carrying. Nobody is an expert on all laws, and firearms laws are some of the most illogical and irrational things out there. By conceal carrying, in the off chance I commit a felony by walking past some nebulous un-marked victim disarmament zone that happens to have a cop walking by I probably won’t go to jail!
This is an excellent reason to start introducing laws that carry punishment for police officers who react violently to open carriers. Just as state legislatures have begun to enact laws that can punish local municipalities, we need to begin to think of laws that treat overzealous or ignorant police the same way.
As the cops are so fond of saying “Ignorance of the law is no excuse!”
Bingo! That is exactly why we need open carry.
Hey! Florida now has a vaguely worded law kinda protecting CCW holders who accidentally expose their gun!
Of course the arresting officer has complete discretion about what the motives were in exposing said gun…
Sorry but this misunderstanding of Texas law is one of my pet peeves…
It is INTENTIONAL failure to conceal that is illegal in Texas.
You can be arrested for accidental exposure (certain police men take the LAW ENFORCMENT label over the top) but NO ONE has ever been convicted. In fact most DA’s stated that unless the gun is in hand and waved around, it is impossible to get a conviction.
As for printing, defined as the shape of the gun showing through the cloth cover, consider your wife’s breast when she leaves for work. You can see she has breasts but would you consider them exposed?
Everything you list are reasons why I have been a fan of open carry. You’ve been to Pittsburgh, and you’ve seen what happens when people OC here. As a resident of the area, I often carry, and with no interaction with law enforcement beyond the nod of a head and a ‘good day.’
That said, in one case I had a minor issue. I was filling my car with fuel at the gas station, and one of the wonderful police officers in that community noticed I had a gun on my hip. Nothing illegal there. He waited until I got in my car and drove onto the public road. He then immediately pulled out behind me, lights and sirens, and pulled me over stating he had ‘probable cause’ that I was carrying a concealed weapon. See, in PA, as soon as you get in your car, even open carry becomes concealed carry. It’s not visible to other motorists, or passers-by on the street.
Of course, I showed him my carry permit, and he let me go. But I should not have even had that encounter.
What bothers me the most, is that every time I’ve been required to present my permit, the entire process has a very strong flavor of ‘Your papers please!’ to it. It doesn’t matter what the circumstances are, or how favorable or even friendly the police are, the effect is the same.
The slippery slope of ‘well, this is a reasonable restriction’ leads to a lot of nonsense.
Interesting story. Hard to say if it was legit or jackbootery. In PA you can OC without a permit, but to ride in a Car suddenly papers are needed (New Hampshire is EXACTLY the same way). He had nothing to go on when he first observed you, but then DID have something once you drove off. Its the same idea of the California bullshit unloaded carry laws. (of course in Cali an officer has no discretion to do a terry stop or not). He probably should have politely informed you a permit was needed to drive off. Like a professionally courtesy. Still if he was respectful in his stop I dunno if I can give much argument.
Still to back up and look at the insanity of the big picture, this is a GREAT argument for going the way of Alaska, Wyoming, Arizona, most of Montana, and Vermont and dump that stupid permit requirement. Certainly has an AMAZING track record there. Why waste all this time, money, resources, and let’s not forget LIBERTY for permitting human rights.
OK now I’m off to read your post on the issue (readers click Boyd’s name above, as I clicked through and skimmed and so-far it looks good)
Preach it, brother! 😉
I get that open carry is not for everyone, and I do not have the slightest problem with that. But given all of the corollary benefits that come from being able to open carry, even if you yourself do not, there is absolutely no reason to not seek its legalization, even once you look past the reality that it should never have been illegalized to begin with.
And, really, given that we are pro-rights activists, standing up for additional freedoms, even if we will not exercise them ourselves, is kind of a no-brainer…