So while on Handgun Radio I mentioned I was interested in getting a cap-and-ball revolver. Somebody had let me shoot their Ruger cap-and-ball, and I rather enjoyed it. Also as a handloader I really dig the idea of handloading my cylinder on the firing line before I touch off a load.
Now comes the specifics. I not only wanted a cap-and-ball revolver, but I wanted a BIG one, and because y’all know me, I wanted one in .45 caliber. Also I wasn’t interested in spending a fortune on one because it’s really just a hobby piece.
Then my email buzzed. Turned out one of the network guys heard this and happened to have an Uberti Dragoon copy **UPDATE** Turns out from people who know more about these guns than I do, that it is an Uberti Walker rather than a Dragoon Awesome, sez I! He was at least the second owner, and openly admitted that the gun hadn’t received the best care in the world. Still knowing the guy and knowing that he wasn’t just some shade-tree hobbyist, when he quoted a price he was interested in, I didn’t even bother to haggle.
Turns out he under-estimated the condition of the gun, and a very little bit of elbow grease I got it looking a LOT better. It probably needs a bunch more TLC, but I think it’s shootable as is.
Still it isn’t shootable without ammo. He included a partial box of 0.454″ balls, I’ll probably need a few more of them to set me up for the forseeable future. Also I’ll need #11 caps (maybe #10?) and suitable powder, and a powder measure.
Also anybody know a good place/brands of powder measures, nipples, and a nipple wrench?
Anything else I should know getting into this?
You’ll also want to use a cleaner rated for black powder, given the differences in corrosion.
The nice part is that you can make your own if you wish: 1/3 rubbing alchol, 1/3 hydrogen peroxide, 1/3 Murphy’s oil soap.
Will you be needing patches for the balls? If so you can get cotton scraps of the rigth thickness at a fabric store for cheap, just makes sure there’s no synthetics in the blend.
Is fun.
Have one myself..1851 Navy.
I have found that washing it first in hot, not just hot, HOT water does a good job of cleaning the barrel and cylinder..
Think finishing with your favorite solvent and oil.
But it is such a pleasure to shoot!
Click..BOOM…big cloud of gunsmoke..and surprisingly accurate…
I am sure there will be some BP experts at the shoot next month.
I have an 1858 Remington copy in .44.
One of the biggest things I have to say is ALWAYS lube the nipples. They seem to rust shut in seconds. Also, if you buy a cheap nipple wrench (like I did) you WILL goober the crap out of the wrench part and it will no longer work. Also make sure you have a nipple pick to clean out the inside.
Lard or Crisco work well as chamber sealant to stop a chain firing. That’s when a spark from the shot you just fired caused one or more of the other chains to fire.
Also, that really theatric cocking of the hammer that happens in cowboy movies? That actually helps a lot with cap and ball revolvers. It causes the spent cap to fall off the nipple onto the ground, rather than into the workings of the gun. Try and get it vertical as you cock it to help. Doesn’t always, but its better than it falling into the workings and locking it up.
Also, they make these little things that hold caps that work WONDERS when you’re trying to get the caps on there. My finger tips are a mess of scar tissue and callus’s from carpentry, guitar, and probably way too much typing, and it takes a while for me to get them on there.
A .38 special case filled to the brim makes a decent powder charge for plinking. It’s about 18ish grains of powder total. You can wire it onto a handle or solder or whatever you feel like doing to make it easier to load quickly. When shooting steel, 18 grains completely flattens the lead ball, so it has enough oomph to get the job done if you plan on using it for anything other than target shooting, though anything you’d hunt or dispatch with a cap and ball revolver would probably be better hunted/dispatched with a .22 LR out of a rifle.
As to cap size, number 10s are smaller diameter, and shorter, than number 11s. But there seems to be a variance in different manufacturers, some work, some don’t. I personally like Remington Number 11s, but its impossible to say if they will work great for you or not. Best bet is ask friends to try a few to see which type your gun likes best. The caps are made out of copper, so if you look too hard at them they will bend.
Another thing, if you shoot it a lot in one go, check the cylinder often, there could be tiny bits of hot stuff in there that can cause a flash up if you pour powder right onto it. It *probably* wont hurt you, but its scary when it happens.
As for patches they make these felt waddings that go under the ball but above the powder, or above the ball, that stop chain firings, but I haven’t really seen that much distinction between crisco and them. Crisco is cheaper tho. Patches are designed to help the ball grip the rifling in a rifle, because rifle balls are made slightly smaller than the diameter of the barrel, whereas revolver balls are made slightly larger. Every time you load it, there will be a tiny ring of lead cut off of the ball. They get *everywhere* so make sure you brush them off before you fire, you don’t want them to get inside the gun.
Dropped balls are better than cast balls for revolver. The extra material where the halves meet on the bullet mold, and where you pour the lead in, might be a bit much to cut through while you load. It makes it more expensive slightly from what I can tell, but its better than getting the gun jammed up requiring a drill to pull the ball. It should say on the box, but it might not. Horandy comes in a little red box with 50-100 balls in there, that’s what I buy and they feed nicely into the cylinder.
Another thing you might want to buy is a Co2 ball discharger, or a ball puller. The Co2 one is in my opinion the best for revolvers, but if you end up with a rifle later on, it might not work due to that much rifling. A wood screw and a pair of pliers works okay too. Just start a small hole with a drill, then screw the screw in a bit, grab it and pull hard, it should come out easily. Though if you’re careful you won’t have to use one.
Powder measures are good to have if you want to tailor your loads for different things.
Powder flasks/horns are nice to have too, but with a revolver rather than a rifle they are more like decoration than anything. A Glad container or a plastic container with a screw top, with black powder in it along with a scoop makes reloading quicker and easier than all the pouring you have to do with a horn and measure. Make sure your container is either plastic, or has a pre stressed line in it. A giant fire ball is better than a giant boom. You want whatever you hold powder in to release pressure, rather than contain it.
Oh, safety wise, always carry it hammer down on empty chamber. It probably doesn’t need to be said, but its always good to remember. And if you pull the trigger and it doesn’t go boom, wait a good 30 seconds to a minute before messing with it. If you didn’t get the powder packed tightly it could be smouldering in there waiting for a jostle to light it all off.
Last safety warning, do NOT use smokeless powder. Smokeless powder in black powder weapons cause explosions. Keep black powder and smokeless powder apart, and if you’re not sure which you put in, don’t shoot it. I use FFG, and it works well. I’m pretty sure FFFG or FFFFG is too hot for pistols, but I’m not sure. Those are designed for flint lock priming rather than actual use in the chamber.
Hope I didn’t write too much. This is just amateur knowledge tho. Anything involving more than 18 grains of powder, ball, crisco on top, followed by putting a cap on it and firing, then cleaning, is beyond me. I use hot water like maddmedic. You need a jag and a good patch tho to get the suction required to pull the water up the barrel tho. And it smells HORRIBLE, so do it outside or when your wife isn’t home. Then toss the gun on a heating vent (in winter) or into the oven at about 100ish for a few minutes to dry out the inner workings well. Then wipe it all down and put it away. Black powder guns seem to rust faster than normal guns too, so try and get as much water off as you can.
I swear it wasn’t that big in the comment box…
No worries, it’s good info.
Also yes, I plan on sealing my chambers with crisco, and cleaning with hot soapy water.
Omit the soap. That’s the most oft repeated (because it’s in some of the manuals) bad piece of advice on BP guns. It’s not only not needed (in any way, shape, matter or form), it can cause harm by removing the oils that you want on there to protect the steel. I never use soap anymore. Back when I did, I noticed a rust-brown colored patch after swabbing, even only seconds after coming out of the water. That doesn’t happen anymore.
Grease your nipple threads very well upon reassembly (after making SURE they’re totally dry) and they’ll never seize. I go several cleanings without removing them. I use animal/vegetable fats almost exclusively for lubing and protection, as it tends to keep the fouling soft and therefore easy to clean off.
Get a Ted Cash snail capper. It holds 100 caps (a full tin) you can wear it around your neck, and it works great. Dump the caps in, shake it ’till they all face open end up, then put the lid on and you’re set.
Hammer down, hammer notch over a “safety pin” on the back of the cylinder between chambers is fairly safe carry. I often carry mine that way. That allows you to load all six. It’s Colt’s design objective. Loading five of six when you’re standing right there, ready to start shooting, as mandated by some range Nazis, is just dumb (the hammer is already on half-cock, so leave it there ‘till you’re ready to fire – further fiddling is less safe than that). The load five, or use of the safety pins applies only if you’re going to carry, and the safety pins are plenty safe so long as you’re not going to be wrestling or playing football while strapped.
I don’t understand the use of a ball puller or CO2 in a revolver. If you end up with a dead load, remove the nipple, dump out or wash out the powder, and push the ball out forward from the nipple thread hole. Anything stuck in the barrel can be pushed out after removing the barrel, which is easy.
Uberti tends to leave their cylinder arbors short (or the arbor bore in the barrel too long, depending on how you look at it), which means that you’re adjusting the cylinder gap (and to some degree the sight zero) depending on how far you push in the wedge. You can contact me at UltiMAK if you’re interested in how to fix that. In short; you shim the arbor hole in the barrel until you have the proper gap of about .004″ when the wedge is tapped in tight.
I like charging directly from a flask, using a spout that throws the desired charge weight, but range Nazis say it’s verboten as a danger of turning the flask into a grenade. It’s a reasonable concern. So be sensible and don’t recharge a chamber only seconds after it’s been fired.
Look into making paper cartridges if you like a challenge and a possible really neat way to reload. Same caution as before though – don’t reload a hot chamber. Millions of “consumable envelope cartridges” were used in these guns during the time surrounding the War Between the States, almost all of which, by the way, used conicals instead of round ball.
Great info! Thanks! My club doesn’t do RO, they just have CC Cameras on all ranges and rely on the honor system with a nice firm “You will never be allowed on our property again!” if you mess up.
So the rules are simple, you want to shoot a BP shoot it like any other gun, and shoot it on one of the outdoor ranges.
I have to disagree with David W. on one point. Many years ago I experienced a chain-fire in a Remington .44 replica using Crisco as an over-ball sealant.
I don’t know if the cylinder heat, or the Arizona sun caused the Crisco to liquify, but hot lead fragments embedding in your face is something you only have to experience once before you use the right stuff.
Have fun and be safe.
Interesting, I know a few guys who use Crisco and have never had a problem. Of course they’re all up here in the frozen North where I’m bitching about it being too damn hot at 85!
I don’t have that much to add except that your picture looks much more like a Walker Colt than a Dragoon. Among other things, Dragoon loading levers are generally secured with a latch. Walkers are held up by friction and tend to acquire owner installed leather straps eventually.
Now that I look at some side-by-side pictures, I think this is a Walker. I’ll have to do a little more research and break out my ruler
You got a Walker buddy….60grains of full house goodness.
I will take your word as an authority!
I’m a bit bummed about the loading lever issues, but all of that is washed away with the power level!
Track of the Wolf has always been my first stop for obtaining black powder equipment and supplies online.
As noted, hot soapy water to clean….best get some bore mops, and brushes, after the hot water and soap, I used diluted Simple Green to wipe off and remaining fouling. I’ve found Frog Lube works great on stubborn fouling. Somethings I do I final wipe down with Balistol (though some folks use quality Mineral Oil from the drugstore), or Eez-Ox.
Qtips for the chamber bottoms, and pipe cleaners for the nipples.
You can use regular modern loob for the guts of the gun, I use Rem Oil. For the arbor, which can bind up in less than 6 rounds of full house loads (why get out of bed for anything less?…..might as well shoot smokeless….), I use Mobil One synthetic grease. Other folks have used high temperature synthetic wheel bearing grease, or chainsaw grease with no problems.
I don’t use wads in the chambers, under the balls….takes up space best used for powder. I’ve been loobing up the loaded cylinder with the Mobil One grease, no problems.
A nice black powder substitute is American Pioneer Power, less pressure than real black at equal loadings.
Only difference between #10, and #11 caps is overall length, I’ve used both sizes with Remington brands with no issues. I’ve found CCI caps to be a bit smaller, and sometimes they would need another hit to go off.
Welcome to the Darkside.
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I use Bore Butter for chamber sealing AND general lubrication and protection of the gun. Works great, not messy.
Another trick is Wonder Wads — non-petroleum lubricant impregnated felt wads, between the powder charge and bullet. Seals against chain fire and seems to make cleanup afterwards easier. I believe the wads scrub a little of the last shot’s residue off the bore, and leave the bore with a fresh lubrication slick. (See my note below on petroleum based products, however.) http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/174/1
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_316&products_id=3561&osCsid=j6124nakvs8eoo9ku2jla3qd55
DEFINATELY use heavy grease on your nipple threads every time you pull them off (i.e., every time you clean it).
I have found that hot water cleans BP guns just fine that have NOT had petroleum products used on them (other than thread grease) since their last detail cleaning. (One reason why I use Bore Butter. Petroleum based products react with BP fouling to produce even worse goop. Bore Butter does not produce nearly the same kind of goop, and it can be used on all parts of the gun.)
Using plenty of boiling water for your last rinse (you want to raise the temperature of the METAL high enough the gun flash dries, so you have to soak the heat in), or sticking the non-wood parts in the oven at it’s lowest setting for five minutes dries any water before it rusts. (This, obviously, doesn’t work with a rifle or musket barrel. Not unless you have an industrial sized oven with a much lower lowest setting than I am familiar with. {chuckle})
Both Goex and Swiss brand powder are fine. I prefer Goex, for no particular reason other than it’s what I’ve always used.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/135/1
Track of the Wolf or Dixie Gun Works are where I go for BP stuff.
Having shot BP pistols for a couple of years I’d recommend the following:
Don’t use any petroleum-based lube, cleaner or preservative on the gun’s interior, altho it’s ok for external use. Kills the BP. Use something like bore butter to lube the internals — it works much better. Also works as a preservative in the bore etc. Go to an automotive parts store & get a tube of anti-seize compound for the nipple threads, and get a good -quality wrench.
I use Wonder Wads under the bullet, which stops chain fires and helps keep fouling under control. Much better than smearing goo all over the cylinder.
Get a thin brass rod that will fit thru the nipple hole. If you have a cylinder that just won’t fire take out the nipple (after waiting for a hangfire), dump out the powder & put some water in the cylinder to douse the powder. Then tap the ball out from the back.
Clean with hot water & mild soap, or a BP cleaner like those made by Thompson Center. Do not use Hoppes #9 or similar smokeless cleaners.
Works for me, your mileage may vary.
Just wow! I’ve been thinking of a cap and ball revo, and there is more good info on the subject on this one post than in volumes of other info!
There’s a reason why I hurriedly scrubbed it up and threw a picture up on the blog.
#1 people like pictures, and if you’re here you like pictures of guns.
#2. I don’t know crap about these things, and people love to share their information!
Hobby, hobbier, hobbiest? Try hobbyist. Hobby is a noun, not an adjective. Don’t mean to be a grammar, um, that guy, just one of my peeves. Much good info here, been lusting, er, thinking about an 1858 New Army myself for some fun. Never would’ve thought of Crisco.
To all my readers, never concern yourself with correcting errors in both factual content and grammatical/spelling.
While I do think I do a great job of putting my thoughts into text, I know I have some limitations on the straight-up mechanics of it, and I have absolutely no ego about it. Also I know there are a lot of people with strong editorial skills, and when they read mistakes like that it not only takes them out of the content, but it can even diminish that content in their mind.
By offering corrections you’re saying you found an error, and know I’d be better served with the corrections. Meanwhile I’m sure some of the people who read this blog because they hate me read those errors and say “Hah, what an idiot!” and are GLAD there are mistakes on this page.
So yeah, thanks, and I fixed it above!
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