Yep this one is a Head Scratcher.
So first up are they saying there are NO states where you can vote with no proof of ID? Funny, wasn’t that long ago where ACORN was registering people that didn’t exist by paying homeless people cigarettes and booze to fill out 5, 10, 20 registrations under creative assumed names like “Donald Duck” or “Mickey Mouse”. Which isn’t very scandalous if you need to show an ID to vote since your name is not “Michael Milquetoast Mouse”, but in many states there is no requirements so simply filling out a bogus registration means your name is on the roster. Hell knowing somebody in the district’s name and address means you can take THEIR vote! So yeah, you don’t need an ID to vote in Many states, and you don’t even need to be using the name of a real or living person to vote.
Now onto the gun thing. Now they highlighted the states where private sales have been banned or places like here where you need a permit to OWN a gun. Still technically ALL states require ID. Why? Well since 1968 we’ve had a piece of legislation called The Gun Control Act. In it is says:
The Gun Control Act mandated the licensing of individuals and companies engaged in the business of selling firearms. This provision effectively prohibited the direct mail order of firearms (except antique firearms) by consumers and mandated that anyone who wants to buy a gun in an interstate transaction from a source other than a private individual must do so through a federally licensed firearms dealer. The Act also banned unlicensed individuals from acquiring handguns outside their state of residence. The interstate purchase of long guns (rifles and shotguns) was not impeded by the Act so long as the seller is federally licensed and such a sale is allowed by both the state of purchase and the state of residence.
That’s the wikipedia quote, but the legalize says the same thing, just not as clearly. I’ll say it clearer. If you want to sell a gun outside the state of your residence it NEEDS to be done through an FFL. Handguns must be sold in the state of the new owner, long guns can be done at any FFL. Any FFL transaction requires an ID and a background check. That’s pretty straight forward. But what about private sales? Yep most states don’t require ID for the sale so long as neither person is a prohibited person and both are residents of the same state. Now the “Prohibited Person” bit can be a bit sticky as its hard for the average citizen to be 100% sure unless they have a Concealed Carry permit (as in an ID!!!) or you’ve seen them buy a gun legally at an FFL (again ID), but finding out they’re a state resident is easy….you just check their ID!
For any anti thinking you can buy a gun without an ID in any state, I dare them to try it. Let’s say you sell a gun across state lines and that person gets caught with that gun, law enforcement could track it back to you ether through FFL information, or just from old-fashioned police work. Now once the police catch up with you you’ll be charged with a federal crime. Your only defense for that crime will be that you were unable to positively confirm that the sale was illegal. The Judge will ask you “Did you ask to see some ID from this person before you made the transfer?” If you say “No” then you get to go to prison!
So yeah, go try and buy a gun from a total stranger without an ID!
Wait… the antis *want* to go here?
Progressives too are Thinkprogress and Salon opening this can or worms?
They do realize that their own rhetoric is that *any* ID requirement to vote will be racist because they believe there will be a disproportional disenfranchising of minorities.
And thus given that the very “sensible” gun laws they’re pushing are *self admittedly* racist. They’re openly saying “Yes we want to make it harder for poor minorities to get guns.”
It’s critical for them to maintain space between these positions. And not bring them right next to each other. Heck one of my favored tools for debating antis is to see if they’ll throw their anti-voter ID rhetoric under the bus in the name of gun control.
Oh for added bonus. The source of their top-quote. Bill Clinton? Yeah he’s apparently now just ducky with Voter ID. As long as the ID is federally issued. His idea was to add photos to social security cards (let’s ignore the logistics and residency and age issues that proposal doesn’t address and simply bask in the irony).
Buy a Gun w/o I.D.? Hell, YOU WERE THERE last summer when Jay and I were SWAPPING guns! If Wally wasn’t available with his FFL, the deal couldn’t have gone down. Even then, I couldn’t just Legally put the SKS in the trunk of my car and head back to Ohio. It HAD to be Shipped to my FFL guy here. So whatever Propaganda these Antis are pushing, they should at least TRY to be Factual!
But then they wouldn’t be $&^&&%#% Antis!
Weer’d,
I think they forget that there are different types of rights; ones that exist regardless of the polity and ones that only exists because the person is a member of the polity.
You nor anyone else don’t get a vote on where I spend my vacation, what gun to buy or not (although advice is often sought), etc — because you don’t belong to the family financial structure. Want to get a vote, join and prove it.
On the other hand, my right to keep and bear arms doesn’t depend on the government or lack of one.
Notice the lack of Blog License Numbers or Free Speech Permits — they recognize the fundamental truth, even as they lie about the application, natural rights shouldn’t need a permit from the government.
Ummmm…. Can’t vote without ID?
Oregon does 100% absentee ballots. We don’t have ANY “polling places” anymore. Literally, the county elections office mails out a ballot, and we can either mail the filled-in ballot back, or drop it off at the office. Even the in-person drop-off is pretty anonymous, and they don’t care if one person drops off multiple ballots – say, if there’s multiple voters at the same address. I’ve dropped off mine AND my wife’s ballots alone, and they didn’t even bat an eye!
The DMV will do voter registration at the same time they create a driver’s license or change an address (must confirm identity), but voter registration can also be done at the elections office, with nothing more than proof-0f-address and citizenship (e.g. a Social Security card and a utility bill); they don’t require photo ID to register. Paired with the absentee system, it’s not difficult – in theory – to defraud the system. (In practice it hasn’t been done … yet … but still….)
So the antis are wrong (surprise, surprise!). Voting CAN be done without showing ID, if you don’t consider possession of a SSA card a valid form of ID (I don’t; not on its own). Try buying a gun with just a SSA card and a utility bill, and the best outcome you can expect is to get laughed out of the store!