I’ve talked about this before, but I’ll talk about it more. First go read these posts by Jay, and Bob.
Both cases are people who were robbed, complied with the robber, and were murdered.
Remember this: If Criminals were Honest and respectable people they’d have honest or respectable jobs. You cannot enter a social contract with them no matter how much of a starry eyed idealist.
If somebody says “Give Me your wallet, or I will kill you” they are JUST as capable of killing you AFTER they get your wallet as before. Same goes for any other robbery situation, and any property that is yours, your employer’s or an associate’s.
Their treat should simply be read as “I am going to kill you!” with no stipulations attached, as any stipulations are irrelevant.
My wife took a self-defense seminar, and she was very pleased with it, and we got to talking about it. Overall it was a good course, the instructor was pro-gun and started the class asking if anybody had experience with defensive shooting, noting it was a “Good idea”, then moved on to their specialty. There was a LOT of good information and techniques taught. That being said there was one (and only one) bad thing said. That was the “Your wallet isn’t worth your life!”
I called bullshit and repeated the above statement. My wife asked what I would do if I was robbed. My response:
“I will kill them.”
“But what if You don’t have your gun?” she responded.
“Then I’ll have a harder time killing them”.
This isn’t a gun issue, this is a life-and-death issue. Just when you note that a robber is simply a murderer looking for compliance BEFORE they kill you, then the validity of carrying a gun becomes VERY obvious.
Be safe out there, and carry your gun. Don’t comply with criminals as it may be the last thing you’ll ever do.
Can you really say your wallet isn’t worth your life?
The fact of the matter is one, the criminal has already said your wallet is worth your life. The question is retaining your wallet worth his. The answer is a resounding yes. Because if it wasn’t, he wouldn’t be threatening my life over it. He wouldn’t be requesting an article which contains information to find my house and potentially my wife. If he didn’t want to end up dead the solution is simple, “Don’t try and rob me.” See that’s it. Just mind your own fucking business and leave me the hell alone. You threaten me or mine for property or otherwise and I will make sure you have a dirt nap.
Even without my gun, as you said, it’s just going to take some more doing. I will say with a 300lbs guy is on top of you smashing your skull, you’re not going to last long.
Indeed.
In a “your wallet or your life” situation you’re in an “exchange” with a person who has shown total disregard for social contrasts AND has deemed your wallet worth your life.
That’s not a strong bargaining position. Unless you change the terms.
Sort of on this topic…..
This editorial was in the Washington Post today. Yeah, Yeah…liberal newspaper, not all gun owners are Republicans!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/fatal-dc-stabbing-makes-a-case-for-handguns/2012/03/06/gIQAP0IZvR_story.html
Usually the columnist would have nothing good to say about guns, so I was skeptical when I started reading. Anyway, thought I would share this. Its especially interesting since the Post is pretty much an anti-gun newspaper.
The 2nd Amendment is becomming a bi-partisan issue. Back in the 90s it was Bi-Partisan to be a gun-banner, and only extreme right-wingers were pro-gun and pro-carry. Now its swung the other way. ALL of the antis are self-described “Progressives”, and more moderate Democrats are getting their carry permits, and voting for liberal gun laws.
Took me 40 years to get here….but yes I think it is a bi-partisan issue…especially in Virginia where I live.
Bought my first gun last month, and am now looking for my second!
They tend to multiply quickly. Certainly you need one defensive centerfire handgun (preferably something moderately concealable), one .22 handgun. One .22 Carbine, one centerfire rifle (preferably something good for defensive shooting) and one shotgun.
Then just go nuts on what you like best! 8)
Actually, there’s a disturbing trend out there.
Who says the Goblins are giving you Fair Warning?
Been seeing a lot of Stories where the Victim was just minding their business, when the Goblin strolled up, pulled out the Gun and shot the Victim. None of the “Your Money or Your Life!” stuff anymore.
Not good.
Recently I read an article written by a 15 year veteran of a fairly large city’s robbery division. I’m sorry that I have lost track of it, or I would provide a link.
The most important thing that I took from that article is that to make the jump from other petty crime to armed robbery takes an especially damaged person. In every single case, that person has already made the decision that he is willing to take the life of a complete stranger to get what he wants. The article goes on to say that unless removed from the street (arrested and sent to jail, or killed) that that armed robber, almost invariably, WILL eventually kill someone.
“Give them what they want” is not a plan for survival, it’s a roll of the dice. A roll that doesn’t have all that much better odds than just “run away! run away!”.
We have all heard the phrase “Evil only wins, when good people stand by and do nothing.” When good people give them what they want, it is even worse. Giving them what they want amounts to rewarding evil.
A year or so ago (a mere week before my CCW arrived in the mail) a young man attempted to rob me while I was pumping gas. ME! He didn’t proffer a weapon, instead attempting to use surprise and shock to get me to comply. It became apparent to him that he had chosen his victum poorly when he saw that I was pointing the gas nozzle at him and patting my pockets looking for a match. He knew I had him, and you could see from the terror on his face that he knew he was about to burn. For those of you who are curious, yes, one more step and I would have lit him up. I can be a harsh bastard that way… Well, IF I could have found a lighter or a match, I don’t smoke 🙂 but he didn’t know that. He hastily appologised, then turned around and ran for his life. At that point, I let him go. I can only hope he used the experience as a catalyst to become a better person. I’ll never know.
s
Yeah I’ve heard (all 2nd Hand so no link either) that people who have been stealing for a length of time, they start seeing their ill-gotten gain as their rightful property, so when your wallet, or the register till only has a few bucks rather than hundreds, they might have a similar reaction you or I would have when you reach into a full wallet and find it empty…or notice your wallet has been stolen, and you know EXACTLY who emptied or stole it in front of you.
Also yes, giving over money to criminals shows them that such behavior is viable. Kill them, sends the other option. Crime is dangerous, and maybe you shouldn’t do it!
BTW on your robbery story, getting Gas in the eyes is on par with getting a snoot full of rubbing alcohol or other irritating volatile chemical. Just giving him a blast with pump gas might be enough to discourage them, and will certainly mess up their vision enough that you’ll have an advantage on your court for beating him to death.
The EYES! Now why didn’t I think of that. The other advantage, of course, is that without actually lighting him on fire, there is no irresistable urge to roast marsh mallows. Imagine trying to still appear human after doing THAT!
s
Go into the convenience store and ask for raw weenies and a stick!
That would be tough evidence for the Jury to hear! 8)
I hate to say this, because I am not unsympathetic to your point, but I really hope you are never involved in a self-defense shooting (especially if it’s a mugging), because the prosecutor would have a field day with this post.
I’m not saying that you shouldn’t defend yourself in the event of a robbery, but the goal is to stop the attack, not to kill the attacker. If you are involved in a shooting, the prosecutor may find this post and decide that your goal was the latter, (and hence straight up murder) rather than the former and decide it wasn’t a legitimate case of self defense.
This is a valid point.
There’s no coup de grace it’s just until the threat stops.
Shame that’s not quite as pithy.
I didn’t attend the self-defense course you mention Weer’d, so I can’t speak for that particular instructor, but in my defense training experience the expression “your wallet isn’t worth your life” is more commonly used in concert with escape/evasion training than any other circumstance (and I submit this qualification negates Barron’s philosophical tretise in this circumstance, though I have no disagreement with the logic of his position otherwise). Tossing your wallet/purse in compliance with a thief’s demand, but in a direction that distracts attention away from yourself as you immediately flee (around a corner/out the door/immediately out of direct line-of-sight from your assailant), is the situation I’ve most commonly heard the objectionable phrase associated with in training. In a somewhat more advanced level of training, doing exactly that (tossing your wallet/purse/loose cash/etc) is a specific tactic taught in Krav Maga as part of a dis-arm technique (as well as to aid in deploying your own firearm when under immediate duress), but it is specifically made expressly clear that such a technique is a very high-risk tactic. Risk, of course, being one of the more malleable classifications there is; you already have someone pointing a gun at you who seems quite willing to shoot you after all, how much greater is the risk of returning the favor?
Again, not saying you’re wrong, only that there are circumstances when the statement is – or at least can be – a sensible one.
…on the other hand, I’ve read of people who carry a spare wallet — think of one of the old, worn ones you were going to throw away anyway — with a few bills in it. Denominations aren’t that important; the idea is to buy a few seconds, after handing it over, in order to get your gun out. This could be vital if you’re caught flat-footed. “I could have had the drop on him, if only I’d had a second or two warning.” Well, you now need to buy that second or two. And, as Barron points out, your wallet has more than money in it.
In a pinch, of course, you use whatever you’ve got to create a diversion. Give him your real wallet (in a manner intended to distract him for a moment). For the ladies, show some skin (on the side away from where you store the handgun, so that you can draw while he’s ogling). And so forth.
And then, yes, I’m with Rob. Once you have the drop on him, IF you can defuse the situation by aiming between his eyes and saying “turn around, m____r f____r, start running, and don’t look back” — well then, you’ve achieved your objective, of living to fight another day. Or perhaps I got that backwards — you’ve fought so that you can live another day.
If I’m caught flat footed I’ll pull my REAL wallet and toss it onto the dirt (preferably behind and to their side). Chances are he’ll follow the wallet and not see me pull my .45. We’ll see from there where it goes.