A bunch of other bloggers are sharing this, I thought I’d take a different angle:
First up, police aren’t going to be filing charges, so this is what a clean shoot looks like.
A few small notes, first no good guys were harmed, and no charges against the defender are filed. That’s a perfect score, full stop. In this exact situation he couldn’t have had a better outcome, PERIOD.
Still there are a few things that bug me. First it looks like he has a small-frame auto in his pocket, and when he draws it the pocket holster comes with the gun. He sweeps off the holster and still has it in his hand as he re-holsteres the weapon after the threat is over.
First up, good on him from using a pocket holster. It seems to me that the number of pocket guns flooding the market in these days when concealed carry is getting to be VERY popular seems to have surpassed the people who know about pocket holsters. Use them, they can save your life. Still while a good pocket holster and a good draw should leave the holster in your pocket, I find that when I’m practicing my pocket draw I find that a small percentage of the time the holster will draw with the gun. Practice sweeping it off. Also remember like empty magazines lose holsters are WORTHLESS in a gun fight. I heard one instructor say in a lesson about speed loaders and speed strips in a revolver class say “They are less worthless than garbage, as you’ll throw away garbage, just let them drop”. You shouldn’t be tying up a free hand with equipment that isn’t necessary to keep your immediate life and the lives of others safe.
Security cameras are tricky, and the video is quick, so you can’t tell if he used concealment to his advantage. Internet cafes and other commercial shops are built light and cheap, there is nothing in there, save possibly the support columns that will give much resistance to even a small caliber bullet. If this was 10 years ago, maybe there would be a few CRT monitors that I can first hand attest will stop handgun rounds, and take a LOT of energy off some VERY powerful rifle rounds. But flat panel monitors and sheet-steel computer cases won’t stop much of anything.
Still these thugs could have at any time turned and returned fire, so don’t present much of a target.
Last look at all the people who just sit there like a duck-in-thunder. There’s that one woman who all three men run past who just stands there in the middle of mayhem holding her ears.
DON’T BE THAT PERSON! Always have a plan in case something goes bad. Be that fight back, get out, or hide. When you don’t have a plan your mind can easily go blank with panic, and that COULD get you killed. Thankfully she didn’t get shot by the thugs, taken as a hostage, or walked right into the crossfire.
You see one of the guys in the front row fumbling with his pocket. He seems to do it when the thugs aren’t looking. At first I thought he was the guy who was going to fight back…maybe he too had a gun, but didn’t engage. Maybe he was going for his wallet to be ready to make the violent criminals happy….maybe he wanted to hide his wallet so he wouldn’t get robbed.
I don’t know, but I will say that if you hand over your wallet to a violent criminal who has threatened your life the ONLY thing that has changed is you are without your wallet. They are still a violent criminal, they still have threatened your life. If they were willing to kill you over your lunch money before, how are you any safer?
And last, if you’re a violent criminal in America, understand that Gun Culture 2.0 is in full swing. People still hunt and target shoot, but now the most popular reason for owning a gun in America is self defense. Further be it Florida, Texas, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, or California, carry permits are at record high levels, and I suspect a much higher percentage of those permit holders are carrying than ever before. Your vocation is very likely to get yourself hospitalized, if not killed. You’re better off running the fry-daddy at the local burger joint.
Good show for the old man, he probably saved some lives that day, as there were a LOT of people in that cafe, and unless those guns were unloaded or fake, the chances of one of those people panicking enough get shot is pretty high.
Carry your damn guns, you never know when you might need them!
Weerd: If you hand them your wallet, there is one good change … the asshole is looking at your wallet, and now as to deal with it.
Hand him your wallet … then draw and empty your pistol into him while he is looking at the wallet.
That’s actually my plan for if I ever get caught totally flat-footed and am facing a guy who has already drawn down on me looking for my valuables. Even pulling a gun from a pocket holster while claiming to be going for your wallet gives him a bit more reaction time to squeeze the bang switch BEFORE I can get the muzzle around, even on the 3″ PM45 in my pocket.
So my thought is to pull my wallet and toss it to the ground, behind him if I can manage, and start my draw as soon as his eyes start to follow the “Prize”. There are a few odd ways that could turn out where I might shoot the goblin at an odd angle that might not look good in court…but at that point my life has already been threatened, and threatened with both motive and opportunity. I’d rather take my chances in court than risk getting one in the gut as he runs off.
Had a chat once with a guy who’d done lots of martial-arts training.
Guy was walking down the street in a not-so-nice part of town, when Perp stood 10 feet in front of Guy brandishing a pistol. Perp said “give me your wallet”. So Guy slowly reaches in his pocket, pulls out wallet, and tosses it in the air over Perp’s head. Perp’s eyes (and maybe gun-hand) track the flight of the wallet, while Guy leaps and snaps a kick into Perp’s chest.
Perp is lying flat on his back, insensate, when Guy picks up the wallet and walks off.
Not the ending I expected to hear…and not a stunt I’d want to try, even if I had the requisite martial-arts training.
I’d rather not ever be threatened for the contents of my pockets.
I’d also rather not shoot somebody to keep from being killed.
Still the ball is in the OTHER guy’s court.
My only concern is that the good guy keeps after the thugs after they’re on the run.
Now, MORALLY I have no beef with this — they threatened people with guns, and it wouldn’t bother me if those they threatened chased them to the ends of the earth to put a permanent end to the threat — but I wonder what an overzealous, gun-banner prosecutor would do with that.
On the other hand, he stops once they’re out the door. There’s a very strong argument that as long as they are armed, moving, and in the same room or building (depending on the layout), then they are still an active threat even if they appear to be running.
Also, like Weer’d noted, there are a lot of sheep milling around at this point, including some along the path between the thugs and the door. It also appears that both thugs held on to their weapons the entire time, so they were definitely active threats to others.
A couple of points as an AAR critique: One thing I just noticed is that by the time the CHP holder has his holster off the gun, the thug has noticed his movement and is turning towards him, and is swinging his gun towards him before the CHP holder has his gun in a firing position. The CHP holder doesn’t actually get his first shot off until the thug’s gun is pointed at him. If the thug’s gun had actually been functional, things could have gone very badly. Lesson: If possible, be circumspect about unholstering, and move your weapon to a firing position as quickly as possible (remember that slow is smooth, and smooth is fast).
Another thing is that he takes 2 -3 steps towards the thug before he raises his weapon to a firing position, which is what really attracts the thug’s attention and gives the thug the opportunity to bring his weapon to bear before the first shot is fired. Lesson 1: Again, bring your weapon to firing position immediately after unholstering. Lesson 2: Moving sideways, if possible, is usually better than directly towards or away, and sideways at an angle is best, as it is the hardest for people to track accurately. In this case, angled movement wasn’t really feasible, but it looks like moving sideways to the CHP holder’s left would have been better, because the thug would have had farther to track and may not have been able to get his gun to bear before the CHP holder fired.
The third point is that there is a bystander almost directly behind the CHP holder when the shooting starts. In addition to what I noted above, moving sideways would have brought that bystander out of the line of fire. Lesson: Be aware of bystanders and their positions, including those behind you, and be aware of your attacker’s probable line of fire as well as your own. If possible, move to bring his line of fire away from bystanders.
None of this should be taken as criticism. Given how quickly things unfolded to give the CHP holder the opportunity to act, and the probable length of time since he had any likely combat training, if he has had any (he’s old enough to have been drafted for Vietnam, or possibly Korea, but it’s also possible he missed both), I can’t really fault him on any point. This is, clearly, a textbook quality DGU.
Good analysis.
It is textbook, and that means we can learn from it.
Another thing to consider about handing over your wallet: How many of us keep our driver’s license in our wallets?
[raises hand]
Now the thug knows where you live. He also knows that you can be cowed with a little bit of violence.
Do you really want that thug coming to your home?
Here’s where the “throw-away wallet” comes in. $10-$15 in small bills in a cheap money clip you keep separate from your normal wallet. If you get caught flat-footed, give that to the guy. Or better yet, follow Kristopher’s and Weerd’s plan and toss it on the ground away from you. Then, if you decide not to engage or if he grabs it and runs, you’re only out a little cash. Otherwise, it’s a distraction which (hopefully) buys you some time to draw and present. $15 is a fair price for the two seconds needed to save your life.
Unfortunately as nice as that is, I carry enough crap in my pockets, and have yet to be mugged, adding a bait wallet (or a tin of pepper spray for those odd in-between moments) seems a lot of effort for little gain.
My drivers license, car registration, and insurance information have all gone to a PO Box for *years* specifically to prevent that.
“Now we know where you live” is a movie line that chuckle about
Pennsylvania does not allow guns legally in casinos.
I don’t happen to gamble, but I know many who do.
I’d like to buy this man on the video a beer!
Not a casino — just a place for people to rent time on Internet connected PCs.
Hmmm. Wonder how Japete and “Baldir” are gonna try and spin this one?
Yeah, I know, even if they were in the same room next to the guy who took on the Goblins, they’d still have their panties in a knot.
We all know exactly how they are going to spin it.
“If the bad guy hadn’t had a gun, no one else would need one. Why don’t you NRA hacks understand that? What gun show did the robber buy that gun at? And it was OBVIOUS that he was no danger once he turned and ran. That “hero” was a vicious bully that chased innocent men down! Who made him judge and jury? They hadn’t been convicted yet. If only the people in the room had just given up their money and let them go, no one would have been hurt. The “robber” even said that his gun was old and rusty and couldn’t shoot. The gunny that shot him should have used his expertise and noticed that! LALALALALALALALALALALA NRA NRA NRA LALALALALALALALA”
Maybe I’ve read too much of her….. stuff.
On second thought, I could have just left it at, “LALALLALALALALALALALALA!