I wanted to start out with just that photo. I first saw that picture in Elementary school, and it really had an impact on me. Before this life was a game of “Cops and Robbers” where the boys and blue were the good guys and they were after Robbers who where thieves who were bad and wore black masks.
Then we talked about Dr. King being jailed for standing up against the Jim Crow laws. Some times it was important to stand up against the unjust, and sometimes that lands you in jail.
Now the story:
Text here
Seems that a bunch of gun owners in Wisconsin (for those not in the know, Wisconsin is one of two states that prohibit Concealed Carry, but they do permit Open Carry) decided to have an Open Carry dinner at a local restaurant. Somebody made the “Man With a Gun” call and the Five-Oh made an appearance, and that’s where things went silly.
The people carrying were armed not only with firearms, but knowledge of the law, as well as the understanding that they might have an inappropriate contact with the police, so some of them had recording devices. One of those recordings is here in MP3 seems to me that both the police and the carriers were professional and polite, but there was a disagreement weather the police had the right to demand ID from people who were visibly breaking no laws. Its my understanding that they cannot, but demand it they did, and two men were arrested for failing to comply.
If they are correct there is no bad that can come from this. The Police will be encouraged to better know the law, people of Wisconsin will be better aware of their rights, non-gun-owners will be more aware of the laws of open carry, and also might have a better idea of how lawful citizens conduct themselves. Even when the police were clapping their comrades in irons did a gun fight break out?
No!
This will be nothing but good for the cause, and my hat goes off to them. I will also applaud their own bravery. Here in Mass no reason is needed for revoking of a permit, so while Open carry is perfectly legal, such an event here could result in loss of ownership rights in the state, and that is a steep hill to climb.
h/t Zercool
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The spokesperson stated that if people are Openly Carrying a firearm, then they have the responsibility to determine who you are and what you are doing…..did I hear that right?
So, If I’m speaking in public – do they have a right to determine who I am and what I’m doing?
If I’m walking with my family (the right to assemble), do they have a right to determine what I’m doing?
NO. The police really seem to have overstepped the boundaries and the spokesperson is inaccurately stating the law.
Hey, maybe we can let the police strip search women on the city streets to make sure they aren’t hiding condoms (might be prostitutes) or semtex underwear (might be terrorists), eh?
Sadly they DO have that right in some states. There are some states where if a Police officer asks you for ID you are REQUIRED to produce some or be arrested.
These laws should be STOPPED.
GRRR !! You’re telling me about some states having ID requirement? I who live in Texas where we should be freer????
If the average person is walking down the street in Texas, law enforcement can require you to identify yourself. Stating your name and address is sufficient. Must produce Driver’s License if operating a Motor Vehicle.
If you are an average law abiding Concealed Handgun License holder & carrying, you must produce both your state identification card/driver’s license and Concealed Handgun License.
This requirement also applies if any ‘magistrate’ so deems to know my identity.
Isn’t it nice to know some people can be treated as second class citizens?
The same folks, Wisconsin Open Carry, won a lawsuit against the City of Racine on behalf of a man named Frank Hannan-Rock. He refused to give his identification and was arrested for obstruction of justice. In the audio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuiO8tixuKY&feature=related) you can hear the police officer clearly — and incorrectly — stating that the law requires Mr. Hannan-Rock to give his ID. The City ends up shelling out $10,000, but I bet Mr. Hannan-Rock can never again drive as much as a single mph above the speed limit.
You can read about it here: http://www.ammoland.com/2010/03/07/wisconsin-carry-awarded-10000-judgment/
Even worse is that Hannan-Rock was one of the two arrested for obstruction in this incident.
You’d think they’d learn their lesson after arresting him for the EXACT SAME THING LAST YEAR and being hit with a $10K settlement.
I wrote about it on my blog, but I think I got a little too wordy….
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