Bullshit! **UPDATED**

John has a great rundown on the new San Francisco carry law. Go read the whole thing. Here’s the bottom line:

The cost for the permit, the fingerprinting, the psychological test, and the firearms testing and qualification test is $2,607 for first time applicants and there is no refund of any of it if they deny you anywhere in the process.

I don’t think I dropped 2 grand on my first gun total kit including all the Massachusetts permitting hoops, as well as my club membership as well as first-time member dues, a used 1911, cleaning kit, safety gear and a half-case of cheap .45 ACP ammo…tho it was a bit close as I do the math in my head.

Furthermore its restricted to guns by certain manufacturers, no cocked-and-locked carry (seriously? Idiots!) and the guns MUST be in .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9x19mm, or .38 Special. So that can close a LOT of doors. No .380 Auto pocket guns, no 1911s, nothing by certain companies that make more affordable guns like Bersa, or Charter Arms, or Kel-Tec. They have the dumb restrictions on what GLOCK trigger pack you must use (but say nothing about say a Kahr or S&W or XD trigger….tho I wonder if they consider guns like the Walther PPS or the Springfield XD “Cocked and Locked” guns).

Further for the range qualification the qual needs to be done on EACH of the guns you want to carry with. So if for me my S&W1911Sc is verboten so I’d have to switch to a Kahr TP45, and I’d also have to re-qualify with my S&W642. No word if say Jay’s Snubbie would be out because its chambered in .357 Magnum, or if he’d just be required to stoke the charge-holes with .38s…same could be said about the Ruger SP101 which is a nice little carry gun, but its a .357, can you carry it with .38s or do you need to get a gun that can only feed .38s?) Also I’ve occasionally carried my wifes S&W638, its a different gun that the 642, but only in the hammer style, and frankly in running of the gun the two are identical, would I need to run the course again?

Furthermore they make you shoot on the SF LE Silhouette target which by this catalogue measures 33″ tall and 18″ wide, and they make you reach out to 25 yards. How many defensive pistol shootings happen at 25 yards? I’m sure there are a few out there, but honestly I’m betting those instances are at hens teeth level of rarity, even if you open up the sample to include law enforcement shootings.

Another thing I noticed was they talk about a “Snapped or locked holster”, meaning they further require your holster to have a retention device. Not sure if the holster also needs to be on the qualifier, certainly the DeSantis Nemesis I carry my J-Frame in won’t count for the test, so my pocket carry might be illegal, or at least I’d need to buy some sort of retention holster JUST to qualify the gun. I’ll also note that I carry my 1911 in a Glaco Miami Classic II shoulder holster which does have a thumb-break strap on it, but I can’t get that rig for the TP45, not sure if anybody makes a good shoulder rig for the TP45…

Not sure what costs are one-time-only, and what must be forked over for each running of the test. But let’s drop the $2600 for a one-time permit issuance, then factor in a $50 Retention holster, and $600 for a TP45, or similar qualifying gun, we’re looking at $3250, and that’s NOT counting club membership or range fees, as well as ammo, safety gear, cleaning kits, storage devices et al, and You aren’t going to be able to drive from the gun shop to the range and expect to score many hits on target drawing from a retention holster at 25 yards.

John’s point is correct, they’re being forced by the courts to allow for Carry permits for residents dumb enough to live in San Francisco, so they made a system so onerous and expensive only the most wealthy and dedicated shooters will even BOTHER to START the process let alone complete it. Furthermore what if you’re a shooter of modest experience and you’ve decided you want to start carrying in San Francisco, you log your range time and take your classes et al, but when you get to the range on test day you get a case of the jitters and score a few misses at the 25 yard target. Try again, buddy and put another dollar in! Maybe you’re now tapped out in cash because you just blew your emergency rent money on the course and gun, or maybe you just give up.

That’s the point. Meanwhile in AMERICA people can live in states where permits aren’t required for carry (some for all carry, others for open carry only) furthermore there are plenty of states who just want to see an application and a check for their troubles, and don’t require you to do any mandatory training. In all these places there are NO statistical differences between states that do this anal-probe bullshit to all applicants.

Furthermore does the SFPD have to run a course of fire like this, and are they restricted to only guns on that list? Are you telling me there are no detectives that carry a pocket .380 in a pocket holster or a deep concealment holster without retention? Not that qualifications matter to SFPD.

San Francisco is PUNISHING you for wanting to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights. Remember that!

**UPDATE** Have a look at this comment from Brandon Combs of Calguns, he gives the breakdown of the fees. Like the Qualification test that costs $1,722, and that does NOT include ammo fees! Still more egregious is “Psychological assessment” and “$1Million insurance”. Disgusting.

Furthermore this is for a ONE YEAR permit! It seems they’re playing the same game Massachusetts does with their non-resident permits. Here in Mass you can’t get a carry permit if you live in some towns, you can in others. If you live out of state tho, the permitting system is essentially “Shall Issue” (the same “May issue” rules apply but when the issuing body is the Massachusetts state police they don’t bother to harass the lawful) still the permit needs to be applied for in person in Chelsea Mass which is not one of the best areas of the state, requires the same training class, $100 fee, and photographing and fingerprinting, and it is good for ONE YEAR!

For those of you who carry think of how many non-resident permits you have. Now think of how it would change the way you live and carry if they needed to be applied for and renewed in person, and were only valid for 1 year.

Needless to say Mass has VERY few Non-resident permit holders. That’s the whole point!

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0 Responses to Bullshit! **UPDATED**

  1. North says:

    I walked in a store, selected a gun, filled out the federal form, grabbed ammo, paid for everything, walked out.

    Somehow I’ve done this over and over without going on a killing spree.

    • Weerd Beard says:

      No no that isn’t an elephant in the room, Gun control advocates see nothing!


      made up problems to restrict freedom. Fuck them!

  2. Jake says:

    I’m not surprised. We are talking about a state that requires separate testing and fees for their approved firearms roster for each colour a firearm is offered in. Somehow, I doubt “safety” has anything to do with their regulatory scheme.~

    Somehow, I doubt those fees would stand up to a Constitutional challenge. Isn’t there already a suit going on for the same thing somewhere else? And IIRC, the fees in that case are only half as much.

    • Weerd Beard says:

      We have the same bullshit here. Up until recently you could ONLY get a Walther PPK in Stainless, not blue steel. Now you can get both, but if you want one in .32, no chance!

      Same thing with Sig which loves to offer all sorts of neat color and trim options on their pistols. the plain-Jayne black models are OK, but not the two-tone or other exotic finishes. Also I know they offer a ton of guns with those hideous aluminum grips, but I’ve never seen them in the wild here. Likely its illegal to sell a gun with Aluminum grips if the approved gun only had the rubberized grips…of course its perfectly legal for me to chuck the grips and swap them out as soon as I get home. Same with getting the Mass trigger for the M&P converted back to free-state weight.

      Also unlike California gun makers willing to jump through hoops CAN get their gun up for sale. meanwhile groups like Glock and Kahr approved their line-up for Mass-sale, but were simply denied by the Attorney general, no reason given.

      They spent MILLIONS to have their guns tested for approval, and they passed all tests and yet were still denied. This caused shops like Springfield Armory, Colt, and Taurus to simply walk away from the table and refuse to so much as enter the testing.

      This of course was the plan all along.

  3. Borepatch says:

    How about a $2000 “permit fee” to get an abortion?

    • Weerd Beard says:

      Wouldn’t that flip some lids. Hell the SF types seem to be pretty unhappy when the pregnant mother actually PAYS for her baby to be killed, let alone adding taxes on top of it.

      Hell how about a 15% tax on the fee!

    • BobG says:

      But Borepatch, the only purpose of a gun is to kill someone; the purpose of an abortion is to—oh, never mind…

  4. Wally says:

    I was pretty impressed that the qual course of fire requires drawing, from a holster with retention, including WEAK HAND ONLY draw and fire – all on the clock.

    I testified against a similar “course of fire” law in ME on the grounds that it will take an inordinate amount of training to get someone competent to that level of efficacy, and no ramgemaster would be willing to give an “intro to weak hand draw with rapid fire” because it would be hazardous at best.

    Also, i infer that a permit is only good for one type of handgun – you couldn’t qualify with a glock .40 and then again with a beretta 9mm. It’s one or the other.

    • Weerd Beard says:

      Oh Jesus I didn’t see the part where you were married to just that one gun! I just assumed it was like the other Cali permits where you had a list of guns you needed to put on your permit (You can see Brady Campaign Poster Boy, and Gun Control Advocate Sylvester Stallone’s permit aplication here:
      http://blog.riflegear.com/articles/the-hypocrisy-of-sylvester-stallone.aspx…he lists 4 different guns for carry from a Glock 21 to a Beretta Model 20 mousegun)

      Good lord! I’m one of those guys who frowns on “Carry Gun of the Month” because if you clutter the playing field too much you might find yourself going for a different draw or a different manual of arms when you need it the most.

      Still demanding that you carry ONE specific model of gun, or not carry at all is ridiculous.

      Obviously Sly put a wide range of various guns because he knew that some days the massive Glock 21 could be concealed and offered good shoot-ability and stopping power, but some times you just can’t or don’t want to pack a large gun like that around so he had the Walther PPK and the Beretta .25.

      Of course he also thought only movie stars should be able to carry guns.

  5. Jake says:

    Wow. He’s posted the actual policy now, and on top of everything else, the RE-qualification test is $1054.96 – and I assume that’s required every year with the $25 renewal fee.

    So, just the cost to maintain your CCW license is more than you would pay to buy two brand new pistols a year.

    Somebody needs to sue over this, now.

      • Weerd Beard says:

        LOL you didn’t catch the two links back to that very post?

        When I say “Read the whole thing” I wasn’t kidding around!

        • Jake says:


          I’ll claim the excuse that I got interrupted partway through, and somehow thought you had only linked to his other post on the topic. Or at least got confused over who linked what where, anyway.

          But, yeah. How many people do those “qualification” fees price out of CCW?

          The phrase “poll tax” comes to mind.

  6. Jack says:

    Reasonable Restrictions!

    Though there’s plenty of antis that see this as just a good start.

  7. 45er says:

    Someone needs to sue on an indigent basis. It’s obvious from the restrictions that San Fran is trying to impede poor people from defending themselves.

  8. Jeffersonian says:

    I want to take official credit for this Brand New Internet Meme:


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