This story really got my pulse up. The article doesn’t really show the big thing that pissed me off. Go have a look at the Police dashcam. (note Video shows nothing, only audio is useful)
“If you’re going to exercise your rights call us first!” WOW, what else does this pertain to? Should I inform the cops I’m going out in my raincoat, but let them know I am just dressing for the weather, and I’m not a flasher?
Should I let them know I’m shopping in a local store and I intend to pay for all items I take, and I’m not shoplifting? This is totally outrageous!
“We’re fine with you exercising your rights in the parks, but out here on the street you’re only going to get hurt….if you get hurt don’t come crying to the person who hurt you?” I’d say this is the most glowing reason to carry a gun. The police are openly expressing their disinterest in protecting an innocent man’s life.
“With that extra magazine pouch you look like you’re going to war! What do you need this for?” Said by a cop with a duty belt loaded with gun, magazines, cuff, et al. Not a hint of irony there. Are you going to war officer? Well from the article:
Warren Police Commissioner Jere Green, who along with former commissioner William Dwyer are defendants in the lawsuit, said Friday he had just received a copy but had not read it yet….“We have to train and educate our troops when things like this happen,” said Green, “and we certainly do.”
Maybe he was being colloquial, or maybe indeed he thinks Peace Officers are in fact soldiers…
Also note the cops trying to claim that if you have a concealed weapons permit that mandates you to carry concealed…or maybe it just permits you to carry a weapon concealed. I wonder if the cops think that somebody is committing a “Big No-no” (their words) for somebody with a CCW who is currently UNARMED? I mean they have the permit, but they don’t have a concealed weapon, right?
Say Uncle weighs in on this.
Really? Who carries a receipt for the purchase of their gun?
There isn’t much I could say that Tam couldn’t say better:
Only paranoiacs who think the cops are going to prone them out and confiscate it…
Wait…
You know, I wish I’d thought of this; it doesn’t seem half so crazy as it did a few moments ago. Too bad I don’t even have receipts for half of mine.
In Mass you get an FA-10 registration form every time you buy or sell a gun in-state, might be a good idea for me to print up a copy of those for the guns I routinely carry for just such a horrible circumstance. Sadly these days Open Carry encounters with police are either Good (Where the cop is respectful of your rights and understands the law) Indifferent (where the cop simply chooses not to get involved in what is obviously a lawful action) or VERY VERY bad like this.
I have no idea why this man was open carrying. It was August in Michigan where it gets plenty warm for shorts and t-shirts, so it could have been convenience, or it could have been political. We talked about the political side of Open Carry on Friday’s Vicious Circle, Since he had an Open Carry law pamphlet on his person, I suspect he was very aware of the political implications. Bottom line is we NEED the activists, as they are the front-line workers that engage the police and educate the police and the populace about laws they may be unaware of. Without them these bad encounters will continue.
Emphasizing that he was not commenting on the Haman case, the city’s top police administrator said any officer who sees a person carrying a firearm must quickly assess any potential threat.
“I don’t think a citizen would just want us to drive by and assume it’s an open carry situation,” Green said.
“Safety’s first.”
“Assume it’s an open carry situation”? Is this guy a moron? If a person is openly carrying a firearm its an open carry situation. If the person is walking down the road with their gun holstered and minding their own business and otherwise acting normal, I think it may be safe to assume the person is just exercising their rights. Certainly if there is doubt the police are welcome to speak to them…depending on the state the citizen may chose not to speak back. Rights, funny how they work.
Still what does the gun have to do with anything? Every law enforcement encounter should assume people are armed, and its pretty foolish to assume that malice can only be determined by the presence of a firearm or other weapon.
The police want to be notified when people are going to exercise their rights?
Jeffery Haman, 54, seeks a $100,000 judgment and $500,000 in punitive or exemplary damages, as part of the lawsuit he filed recently in U.S. District Court.
You have been so advised!
Hell I don’t have purchase receipts for a few of the guns I own and I sure as hell don’t carry the receipt on me.
Yeah, not everybody does. I might not have receipts for all my guns if I didn’t live in Massachusetts. And certainly you’re under ZERO obligation to prove you legally own something, its law enforcement’s job to prove its NOT legally owned.
Still you shouldn’t need to carry the text of the law with you either…doesn’t mean its not a REALLY good idea.
” and its pretty foolish to assume that malice can only be determined by the presence of a firearm or other weapon.” So true. All i would add to that is “visible presence of a weapon”. There are VERY few instances i am aware of where a criminal is carrying a firearm openly in a proper holster. If i were a cop, i would be more cautious with people that are NOT openly carrying.
Hell, one reason why I don’t open carry when i’m in Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire where I both spend a lot of my time, and Open carry is very much legal is I have NO desire to ever be in such a situation with the police, and go though all the potential nonsense.
Of course I could get proned out and my gun confiscated while carrying concealed for various reasons….but open carry CAN draw a lot more attention. Now our open carry crusaders go through this stress because they KNOW the law is on their side, and not only can their sacrifice lead to the greater good, but one can sue for damages which might add a few additions to the gun safe for their troubles.
Meanwhile Thugsley the gang-banger has NO protections from an illegally carried gun, and if they are carrying to commit a crime they can’t afford unwanted attention.
So yeah, chances are somebody carrying a gun in a proper holster openly most likely has NOTHING to hide.
To me, this is like telling your spouse: “You know I overreact and beat your ass when you talk back, so for your safety, you had better keep your mouth shut.”
“Look m’am we appreciate you exercising your freedom of expression by dressing as you do, but you’re just ASKING to get raped, and don’t come crying to us when that happens!”
Yep, assholes!
I take that statement as a literal threat against his life. They’re saying that he can’t whine to the cops when the cops themselves shoot him down like a dog because he’s not being a good serf.
That was how I heard it, too.
Of course, even if you choose to go the CCW Route, you still have to put up with the assholes of the Canton, Ohio P.D.
BTW, Someone you and I both know (who shall Remain Nameless) decided to OC in N.H. Saturday in TWO separate Restaurants where Mass. Volk were eating, and no Police were called upon us. So next time you cross the Border……
Yeah, I know NH is OC friendly, but I leave the house carrying concealed, it’s a PITA to switch my methods when I go out either pocket carrying or shoulder carrying.
“With that extra magazine pouch you look like you’re going to war! What do you need this for?”
Can you spot the person who doesn’t shoot enough to encounter magazine failures?
Spot the person who doesn’t shoot often enough to have accidentally dumped a magazine during a drill?
I can and it ain’t the OC’er !!
I’ve mentioned many times that I’ve scanned all my purchased firearm’s receipts and emailed them to myself. Now, with an upgraded phone, I’ve copied the PDF files directly to the phone. Texas has reciprocity with Louisiana but they do have that unfortunate history of confiscating firearms until proof of ownership can be established.
Guess what is easy to do now?
Another aspect is in case of theft. If my firearms are stolen, I don’t have to hunt around my house to find serial numbers (my phone also contains a listing of all firearms I own and the serial numbers) calibers, make and model. It is easily available at home or on the road.
In Michigan all pistols have to be registered, and for the first thirty days of ownership you have to carry around your registration card with you if you are carrying the pistol. Being that most news outlets don’t know their asses from their elbows in regards to firearms they may have confused receipt with registration card.
I appreciate the OC crowd taking the risks and the hits to normalize firearms. They are better citizens than I am.
Wow… After reading that post and what everyone else had to say, I really am feeling culture shock.
Over the summer I have had multiple police officers say something basically along the lines of, “Thanks- I like having people like you guys out there carrying, especially during events like this.” Not all of that was open carry, a couple of times it involved talking with uniformed/on duty officers and following the law by informing them when any or all of us were carrying. They APPRECIATED it.
They don’t bat an eye at going jogging with something openly strapped on. Or hiking. Or the rifle on the four wheeler. Or on the boat.
It’s just such a part of life up here.
Maybe I hang out with too many of the shooting crew in town, so I’m overly immersed in responsible gun culture. Who knows! The new boyfriend even has more guns than I do. I’ve been working with his family over the summer on rebuilding TVSA too. Other than taking up competitive shooting, I don’t think I could land more in the middle of it up here. (And I am just not into competitions that start at 8 AM or earlier on a weekend…)
I don’t know. I can’t imagine it being any other way now. I honestly feel safer than I ever did wandering around anywhere back home.
It really all depends on the area, and overall the officer. There are so many people who have great open carry experiences, and its not just in the wilderness either
http://www.weerdworld.com/2011/more-like-this/
In many cases cops need to learn their lessons, and its guys like this that are teaching them to them.