Images of the Antis: Is it Accurate?

One of the interesting things about the anti vs. Pro-Gun view is both sides are talking about the same thing. We’re both talking about public safety. Pro-gun people claim that allowing people the proper tools of self defense turns the tide against the violent element, and rather than the end-result being a shootout total war, instead leads to the violent element choose a less confrontational mode of crime.

The anti-gunners claims that guns are the root of violence, and by banning guns you can’t ban violence entirely, but without guns you’ll have less violence, and the violence you’ll have will be less deadly.

Both sides have their facts and statistics, and they are universally contradictory. Both sides take the facts with a grain of salt, or better yet (at least on the pro-gun side) tear the stats apart and show why they’re bogus.

That leads me to this:

CSGV Violence

Now let’s just start with the open assertion given here. So CSGV is claiming that around FIVE TIMES the homicides in America are NOT gang related, and not related to the commission of felony activities?

So let’s just dive into our collective personal experiences. First up, is where you live a place that has much gang activity? If not, do you have many homicides at all? Now if you live in a low-homicide area, think of the nearest place that is known to be dangerous. Are there a lot of gangs and gang activity in that area.

For me it is, no, no gangs here, and no we have a relatively low homicide rate. There are a few cities nearby (most notably Boston) where there IS a violent crime problem, and yes Boston is maggoty with gangs, especially in the neighborhoods where people wind up dead.

So yeah, this image seems to be pure bullshit. But how did they get it? I imagine its purely on what the prosecutors can charge. Do they KNOW that killer X is involved in a gang? Maybe not. Can they prove that the killing was gang-related? Also probably not without a confession. Also remember “snitches get stitches”, so ratting out your local gang boss will get you killed while still in prison, and probably get your family members harmed as a message.

Hey, but let’s just give up our rights because some nutbag anti-gun person made a graph!

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5 Responses to Images of the Antis: Is it Accurate?

  1. Miguel says:

    It is not the data but how it is parsed. First, tying a murder to a gang is at best a difficult job and Law Enforcement tends to under-report it for several reasons, including not wanting to appear to the outside that their city is having a gang problem. Hell, if you go by the news and police press releases, there is no gang problems in Miami!

    Now, according to the FBI, in 2012 there were a total of 8,855 murders by firearm. The same year, the DOJ gives us 2,363 gang-related murders so right there we have that at least 25% of the murders in the US are proven Gang related.
    http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/survey-analysis/measuring-the-extent-of-gang-problems

    But there is a bit more to go on. The DOJ stats come from 999 Law Enforcement entities reporting gang crime, but there are 17,985 state and local law enforcement agencies in the United States. So basically we are seeing statistics from a fraction of LE Agencies and not even close to a half-assed picture.

    And then to finish it off, there is no standardized definition of gang member or gang crime.

    https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Content/Documents/Definitions.pdf

  2. Jack/OH says:

    CSGV calls this an “outstanding chart”? The title uses “homicide”; four of the categories use “killings”; one category uses “murder”. Even in common talk, people roughly differentiate those words. It’s not an “outstanding chart”.

  3. TS says:

    They are just grabbing the “other” category, which unsurprisingly happens to be the largest. Notice how CSGO just inserted the word “escalated” in there? FBI data say nothing of the sort, but they want to make it seem like there was no intent to murder and things just got out of hand, presumably because there was a gun (though the FBI data make no mention of that either).

  4. It goes like this

    Yo, my homie, T-Box was all pissed off that Da’Ronte din’t pay his drug debt so T-Box sez to him “Yo, give me my money, bitch,” and Da’Ronte said “I ain’t got none.” So T-Box punches Da’Ronte in the face. Da’Ronte pulls out his Nine and put three bullets in T-Box’s head. It was just an argument that excalated to murder. T-Box was just axing for his money. Were’n’t no call to shoot T-Box fo’ dat.

    If only we had gun control.

  5. Loess says:

    How much of ‘escalated to murder’ is beating or stabbing?
    They really didn’t differentiate what method was used.

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