Untrained Yahoos

Mike W. mentions about the people who oppose open carry talking about the need for training.

Of course this depends on the hodge-podge of state laws. Some states essentially issue a carry permit that covers all forms of carry, other states only restrict concealed carry. Of course within that mix-up are states that require extensive training and other that require no training at all. Further separation can be for states that require extensive live fire, while other states that require little to no handling of live firearms.

First I’ll just point out that you can look far-and-wide and you won’t find a single state that stands out with “untrained yahoos” with carry permits. And there’s lots of states to compare. I know Texas and Florida have been pretty forthcoming about their permitting system, and I know Texas has a very extensive live-fire training qualifier, and further has restrictions on WHAT you can carry depending on how you qualified, meanwhile Florida’s CCW class is almost all class work, and a very minimum requirement on live fire. (In my class I simply discharged a blank, which really doesn’t teach you much), and the end result is no difference. Same goes for any other two mash-up states.

This has nothing to do with the angelic nature of permit holders, its just the stakes are so high. You get in an auto accident or get caught speeding or running a stop sign, you’ll pay a fine, get a bump on your insurance, maybe for some bad ones you’ll get a license suspended, but unless you’re a REALLY dangerous driver, you’ll be driving again. All it takes is one ND, or pulling a gun on the wrong person, or even an accidental exposure in the wrong states and you’ll lose your permit FOREVER, and very possibly lose your right to OWN guns FOREVER. That’s a pretty serious deal, and most people take it as such.

Now onto the expert. Mr. Larry Correia, before he was a bestselling author he was a firearms trainer for the Utah conceal carry class. He’s talking about CONCEALED carry, but everything he says holds true for ALL training.

When I first started out, I did a full on basic handgun class in addition to the lecture portion that was required by the state. What I quickly discovered was the people who were going to be smart, were smart. People that were going to be stupid, were on their best behavior while I watched them, then immediately went back to being stupid when they were on their own.

Shooting is a skill that can be taught. People that want to learn, are going to learn. People with giant egos assume that what they know is good enough, and you can’t teach them anything anyway.

That’s the bottom line, some people will take a class to heart, others won’t take it seriously. Furthermore skills are perishable. I took my permit class back in 2005. That was the last time I was asked to discharge a firearm for the State of Massachusetts. Maine took my 2005 diploma for my Maine non-resident permit. New Hampshire didn’t care. They cashed my check and mailed me a permit. Florida had me pop the cap on a blank…big deal.

Now I’m hardly the world’s greatest shot, but I’m a solid shot, and I’m pretty smooth about drawing for concealment. None of that shit did I learn in a training class, I learned it all from training on my own time, and studying up on the subject.

If I only shot a gun when mandated to under law I’d be the worst fucking shot known to man. It really wouldn’t matter if I had done the super-ninja ultra-training course, of if they mailed the permit to me New Hampshire-style.

Larry makes another great point:

Also note, that the people who are in favor of more training and tougher tests, don’t want to set the bar so high that they can’t personally reach it. They would much rather set the bar just below what they can do, because obviously, that’s how proficient you should be. Anybody who can’t shoot as good as they can is obviously a menace to society.

The next time somebody tells me some nonsense like that, I’ll tell them sure, only I think you should shoot at least as good as me, and odds are that since I’m a fanatic, and I can easily outshoot you, no permit for you. On the new mandatory Correia Test, the permit holder has to be able to shoot at least Expert on an IDPA classifier, while wearing a backpack loaded with eighty pounds of cinderblocks, while teenagers pelt you with rotting fruit, and listening to Barry Manilow records… BACKWARDS! I figure that will take it down from 115,000 CCWs to where there are only about fifty or so people carrying guns in Utah. That should keep the riff-raff out. Because you know, then I would feel safe.

A lot of people think you need super-ninja skills to be a “proficient shooter”, but really all you need to do is to be able to load and holster your gun, and to present shoot and reload said gun. That’s really it. Your groups aren’t even all that important. Be able to keep all shots on a stationary 9″x13″ piece of paper from ten feet (don’t even worry about target zones, shots landed in that area consistently will achieve the desired results on a live target that may be moving, but will likely be much closer, and unlike the paper, fears death.

Of course there’s the constitutional issue, with the 2nd Amendment being a human right, and permits for that are bullshit. Still even if you’re squishy on the whole “Living Document” bullshit argument, I’ll point out that it doesn’t matter, because the logical and rational thing is to let people carry and quit messing with it.

This entry was posted in Guns, Safety, Self Defense. Bookmark the permalink.

0 Responses to Untrained Yahoos

  1. mike w. says:

    Funny thing about my state Weer’d. Delaware requires a live-fire portion for our CCDW, yet specifies no shooting standards whatsoever beyond “you must fire 300 rounds of ammunition.” A CCW class could have everyone simply fire six boxes towards the backstop while seated & while being fellated by the nastiest hooker you could imagine and they’ll have completed the state requirement.

    Now, I don’t know of any DE CCDW trainers who would simply have students fire off 300 rounds at the backstop, but technically that’s all they’re required to do shooting wise.

  2. Bubblehead Les says:

    In Ohio, to get a CCW Permit, one has to take a Class, shoot on the Range, get a Background Check, and spend several hundred dollars for this “Privilege”. To OC, one needs to be above the age of 21 (for Pistols), have NO Felony Convictions or other Judicial Blocks (i.e., the Judge says “You’re Crazy, put him in a I Love Me Jacket”), and you have to Disarm and Unload if you drive a car. In BOTH cases, you have to deal with “Signs.” In OC, you also get to deal with every little Burg sending out the SWAT Team because some Leftie has a Hissy when they see you.

    But our Wonderful State Attorney Generalisimo, Mike DeWine, who got a C- NRA rating when he was our RINO U.S. Senator, just signed a Reciprocity Agreement with Louisiana, because “…they have similar Training Requirements.” Which means Ohio recognizes 21 States CCW permits, and the rest of the Country can go to Hell.

    So does that mean the Ability to use a Handgun Skillfully ( in Ohio), as some say is THE ONLY WAY, depends on lots of Money and a Jacket? Because OC or CC, I thought shooting skill meant that one had to hit the Target they were aiming at, not whether one had on a Vest or Not. And if one can carry a Pistol without a Tuxedo under the State Law, why do we need Permits in the First Place?

    Wish I had the Money for a Good Lawyer. This would be Fun to run up to SCOTUS.

  3. Bob S. says:

    I actually use the Texas CHL course of fire to good effect.

    In all practical purposes, it is identical to what is required to qualify as a Basic Law Enforcement Officer by the State Board.

    That whole “The cops are trained better” meme goes out the window when the civilians have to prove proficiency nearly identical to the cops.

    I don’t think that a person should be required to have training (heaven knows we don’t require parental training before people procreate, or anger management classes) but if we do….isn’t it nice to that it shuts up the antis if only for a moment

    • Weerd Beard says:

      Only problem is that cops are shitty shots as a rule, making that whole argument a fallacy.

      The Neighbor’s kid just started working for local LE and one of his buddies from the Academy was in his qualification class, so he logged a little extra time at the club as to not be out-done.

      When he told me this, I informed him he’d likely be able to pass the qualifier with 5 beers in him.

      He scored a 95, 70 being passing.

      As for “Shutting up the Antis” when was the last time an Anti shut up because they were full of shit?

      Again, Straw man!

  4. Dave Killion says:

    My biggest take-away from this post was the realization that paper cards do not fear death.

  5. Pingback: More On Training | Weer'd World

  6. Pingback: More Made Up Problems | Weer'd World

  7. Pingback: More of Them Not Thinking Things Through | Weer'd World

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *