The Blue Language makes it. The Russians just needed a gun they could cheaply make to arm their massive army. “Adequate” is a good way to describe cold-war weapons. Does the gun shoot? Yep. Will a Cabbage Farmer from the banks of the Volga be able to hit another man from across a battle field more-times-than-not? Yep. Is the cartridge effective enough that a hit soldier will be reasonably compromised? Da comrade! Will it hold up to abuse and neglect? Yep.
And if all of this doesn’t work does it have a big spike on the end of it that can be used as a spear? Da, and not only that the heavy stock can be used as a swell club!
That works! Start production, we need a Million by the end of the month!
And even when the NEXT Adequate rifle came out they held onto the old ones for decades JUST in case they had more soldiers than they had rifles, because what killed men 30 years ago will still kill them today!
And now they ship them here, and they’re fun to collect!
Love some of his expressions
“Hit a fucking flock of barns.”
Hah
I lost it at that one too lol
Best advertisement for the Mosin-Nagant, in like, ever? Simo Hayha.
😉
Simo almost exclusively used iron sights for his kills. This meant being somewhat close to his targets, lessening the impact of the rifle’s accuracy.
Not to mention that he used a Finnish variant of the rifle (the M/28) 🙂
You’d be amazed at how far off somebody could reach out with Iron sights!
Iron sights and a brand new Sako barrell and a new stock, re-bedded by professionals.
The M-39 especially is damned near a completely different rifle.
It’s a war surplus rifle that will do its job. Too many people are obsessed with sub-minute of arc rifles who can’t shoot up to that standard. I do know this: Mine goes bang whenever it’s loaded, no matter if the ammunition came from a leaky barn in the Ukraine or is newly loaded, and there ain’t no direct impingement tube to get gummed up.
Last time I was on a open 100 yard range with my FAL I slung up the rifle and doing moderately fast shots put a mag of military ball ammo into the torso of an IDPA target.
That’s good enough for what I’ll use the gun for. Why haggle over silly points?
Because, RACEGUN!
Scootaloo! Scoot scoot, Scootaloo!
As long as the rifle would shoot sub-minute-of-Nazi, then it was good.
Wow, I had no idea Mosins were that inaccurate. I thought between them being sniper rifles in WW2 and Simo Hayha, that they were really accurate. I guess standards have just changed.
Still, there is good news: my grouping at 100 yards just got a hell of a lot better!
The question of Mosin accuracy is more a matter of luck than any particular design or intent… Mosin “Snipers” were not actually specifically built as such at the factory – the Ruskies simply tested all the Mosins when they were done building them, and if they happened across any that had uncharacteristically good accuracy, they labeled it a “Sniper” and dressed it up as such.
Yes, their manufacturing process had that much variance in it. But it worked :).
I’ve got a friend with a Finnish Mosin, made by Sako.
Tack. Driving. S.O.B.
With milsurp ammo, no less.
Perhaps the various Russian manufactured Mosin’s suffer from accuracy problems, but I think the Finns put some time and effort into building them right.
Likewise I suspect the Remingtons (and perhaps the pre-Revolution Russian ones) are built to better tolerances than, say, a 1943 Tula.
I don’t know about “inherent accuracy” at the top end, but there’s no reason one can’t shoot just fine if it was made to, rather than to desperately try and hold the Nazis back long enough to make enough tanks…
IIRC in 1943 Tula was overrun by Germans, but I have a ’43 Izhevsk, and that rifle is downright SLOPPY! I also have a ’33 Izhevsk which is a much more polished rifle. I also have a 1896 Tula M1891…but that’s hard to judge as I bought my 91/30s as arsenal refurbished guns directly from wholesalers still packed in grease, and my 1891s were found at various gun shops with no import marks (my Westinghouse very well may have never left New England…) and have been in God knows how many hands before mine.
But that’s one of the joys of having a locker full of Mosins, is you can look at them individuals, and as a progression through history!
My 1943 Tula, was side tapped for the scope and the mounts where welded over when it was refurbished. It has one of the laminated stocks and after I added a 3″ recoil pad to make up for the way too short LOP I can shoot 3″ groups all day long with MilSurp ammo. I am shooting the 178 grain brass, corrosive Brenden primed stuff and so far have had no dud, no click-bangs, just consistent point of aim hits.
To be honest the Irons are actually a bit easier for my aging eyes to pick up than the irons on my ’46 SMLE.
Erin: the only thing a Finn Mosin has in common with a Russian one is that the receiver was pulled from one of the vast pile of rifles the Tzar left in Finland in 1917.
Sako or VKT took that receiver and built a new rifle on it.
Here is a pic of my Finn fresh from the post man ( it was built by the Sako on a pre 1898 reciever, so it was still an “antique” and could be mail ordered ).
The stock is two pieces, you can see the tounge and groove lamination north of the magazine … the Finns didn’t waste the lumber ends just for appearance.
Finnish Mosins rule. And Simo was the most bad-ass dude who ever lived. Had artillery strikes called down on him PERSONALLY.
The point about the massive production is they were happy to get 6 moa out of them. Some do shoot better than that, most certainly, but that was not required of them.
Sniper guns were specially made and had selected barrels. Not specially made for sniper duty, mind you; just the cream of the crop.
Normal distribution’s a wonderful thing.
When your lot size gets high enough and your variance comes to match you have a whole bunch of above average you can pick.
The below average… well that’s why you have your min spec set where it is, or inspect and toss the bad ones, or go “good enough”
They are fun to shoot and collect and learn about. I want another:)
Be Careful, Girl. I have a safe for JUST my Mosins.
…But I don’t have a problem, I can quit buying them whenever I want!!!!
I am aiming my Mosin at you…
You want to tell me all about the suckage?
That it won’t hit you?
Heh..100 yds open sights and all inside the circle on the 8.5 x 11 paper..Lay that on your chest and say OUCH!!
And you can quit buying whenever Weerd?
YOU LIE!!!
LOL, I don’t have a Mosin addiction, and anybody who says so lies! (please don’t ask ANYBODY who’s been in my armory when the Mosin locker got popped….needless to say many have run screaming!)
http://snarkyposters.blogspot.com/2012/06/its-not-problem.html
Oh FUCK I wish! Someday!
the only Moisin i ever shot that wasn’t worth a poot was one that it appeared Oafish Ivan had been cleaning the bore a little too vigorously with a steel cleaning rod and all the crown was gone. also, the guns don’t vent gas at all so if one has a blown primer or a case failure (not uncommon with brass cased surplus ammo) then one is going to get a face full of hot gasses and metal bits. wear eye pro.
but they’re fun. 🙂
If it looks stupid, but it works, it is not stupid.
Here are few
http://snarkyposters.blogspot.com/2012/06/mosins-barns.html
also anyone try czech ammo
http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2012/03/mil-surp-training-ammunition-makes.html
Mhahahahaa.
That made my day. Thanks.
Love how the last one rounds it out.
I like that he found that photo!
Barns are solitary hunters in New England!
I guess in Siberia they hunt in packs! It was the stomping ground for the Wooly Mammoth, one barn might not be able to best such an adversary!
Hit Barn?
In glorious Soviet of Socialist Republiks, Mosin is for when you must shoot THROUGH the barn!
Besides, all barns are Nazis. Barns are capitalistic tricks. Everyone know that one can never produce enough food to actually store!
Let’s look realistically at what Mosin’s are:
1. They are a relic – literally — of a different era. Read some place that the longest range on the sights were for ‘mass volley fire’; when was the last time you owned and operated a firearm designed for that?
2. They are cheap. Name another firearm that inexpensive that has the accuracy and durability of a Mosin.
3. They are used. And probably used hard — but they still function well. I want to see how well an AR or other modern battle rifle will hold up to years of hard use and decades of poor maintenance and storage.
When I buy a Mosin, I’m not buying a firearm expected to be sub MOA at 1,000 feet. I’m buying a little piece of robust history that will be passed along to my great grandchildren. And I fully expect they’ll still be able to shoot it.
+1 Dude!
Hell My M1891s haven’t been fired by me, and I really don’t feel a major need to. I bought them as old war horses who deserve to be let out to pasture where they will be kept clean and oiled and be marveled over by a collector who might have a bit of a problem 😉
Name another firearm that inexpensive that has the accuracy and durability of a Mosin.
Various cheap large-ring Mausers, depending on the year being discussed…
Actually there are some pretty damn well used M16’s in the inventory still trucking along. The retro section of Arfcom has made a hobby of finding the old guns still in service. The AF in particular is very Russian about not ever letting a gun go while it can still be used.
I know a guy who was in the Navy shortly after Viet Nam, and he qualified on a Garand. I asked if it wasn’t an M14….nope Garand.
Not sure how many of those are still kicking around in active service…
I have a vague memory, perhaps from the History Channel, of Ian V. Hogg (focus Weerd) saying the primary design feature of the Mosin Nagant was avoiding copyright infringement.
Sergi Mosin was really looking to make a Mauser clone with the Mosin Nagant, and was heavily influenced by the design, and made a bunch of changes to how the bolt worked so as not to piss off the engineers in Imperial Germany.
I have a 1955 mfg. Polish T-44 (M-44 everywhere else but Poland). Bought it absolutely mint, new, unfired.
The finish, polish and bluing puts most modern rifles to shame. Cartouches in the stock, you ask? Still have grain-feathers of wood in ’em from the stamping, like it was done this morning.
It has a great trigger. Not great for a Moisn, but a GREAT DAMN TRIGGER.
Best group I’ve got from it was Winchester White Box (Metric). Forgot the grain weight, and I’m feeling too lazy to go open the safe to look at it.
But, it got down damn close to 1 MOA. Not quite there, but close.
Wonder what handloads might produce? Dunno, but the dies are on order.
Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
A Polish M-44 (never heard of the T-44…you sure you aren’t confused with the Chinese T53?) was the first Mosin I ever shot. It started it all!
I’ve read the proper designation for the Polish M-44 is M-50.
They skipped over the SKS and went from Mosin to AK.
Back when I worked for Federal Ordnance, I used to handle Mosin’s by the pallet load. Never caught the bug for them though, I did pick up a nice SAFN, Swedish Mauser and a Remington Rand 1911 while I was there though.
Bought my Hungarian from Federal arms. They would pull one rifle out, take it or leave it.
If memory serves Federal Arms was a different company with a similar name. We usually had at least 10-20 Mosins out for customers to look at (among others).
My 1936 Izhevsk 91/30 is my favorite centerfire rifle for just going to the range and putting holes in stuff. Is it going to put a hole in a hole on purpose? Probably not. Can I shoot it all day long for about $2 worth of ammunition? Yep. Can it make a good open sights hunting rifle? You betcha. Does it bark and buck enough to get a smile on my face every time? Aw yeah!
Please, for the love of God, tell me where you are getting 54R ammo that cheaply!
I packed in a few spam cans ages ago. Still prices haven’t gone up THAT much!
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/440rds-762x54r-silver-tip-bulgarian-military-ammo/cName/762x54r-full-metal-jacket
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/440rds-762x54r-silver-tip-russian-military-ammo/cName/762x54r-full-metal-jacket
Finns with Mosins…..be afraid. And don’t break into anything of theirs.
http://satwcomic.com/coffee-thief
Too Funny!!!!
I like this guy. A crazy Canadian, I’ve talked some with him and he’s a great guy.
Don’t let him fool ya’!
Regards,
Josh Smith
Smith-Sights.com