One hard thing in getting people involved in firearms ownership is helping them find a shop to try out new guns and make purchases.
Well it appears that the BATFE has a list of most FFL sorted by state. Just download the Excel file and search out the areas you’re near. Remember its the type 01 and type 02 FFLs are the ones that are “GUn Shops”, other FFLs are things like manufacturers and other stuff like that. Also for those who are creeped out by the BATFE 03 FFLs (collectors of Curios and Relics) are NOT listed. So you won’t find my address there!
Still there are still a few “Kitchen Table” FFLs, as well as the bizzare one held by Josh Sugarmann of the Violence Policy Center in Washington DC so if you think you found a shop you want to check out, it might be a good idea to look them up in the phone book and give them a call before you swing by, as it just might be somebody’s house who only opens for appointments. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, as I’ve gone to several home-based gunshops and you can find some really neat stuff and some really good (and horrible) prices there.
Next time I’m in Maine, I just found a few 01 FFLs that are right near where I grew up…a few look like regular houses so I wonder if the address is right, but other places look like normal shops in parts of town I’d never been to.
a few look like regular houses so I wonder if the address is right, but other places look like normal shops in parts of town I’d never been to.
They could be regular houses. My FFL runs his business out of his basement. His house looks just like any other in the neighborhood. Cool ass dude and one of the few “kitchen table” 01 FFL’s still around here. And damn if I don’t love being able to walk to his house.
Yeah I’ve been to several 01s based out of houses. One is in a detached garage, another is in an attached barn. One is a gun smith so you need to order whatever you might want to buy from him, but the other guy has a BOATLOAD of old Milsurps and a few more modern guns, but its quite a place for a Cruffler to go!
They’re forcing a lot of them out of business if they don’t have a storefront, as “hobbyists”. Been quite a bit of carnage in the past few years. That’s why I went for an 07, as you don’t need a storefront. One guy was a Marine Rifle Team Champ with no crim history but they said he was a “hobbyist” and if he didn’t give in on that they were going to figure out some paperwork violations…
Kitchen tables are going by the wayside through PURE ATTRITION. There used to be a lot of FFLs, there aren’t anymore. And when they force somebody out of business they get to archive his bound books. I’m sure it’s all entirely accidental…
To have a commercial FFL, the “official ruling” is you have to “show intent to be in the business for profit”.
I’ve had multiple conversations with compliance officers as to what that means and they say “if we wrote it down, people would try and find loopholes”. So I brought up the example of a person who say, collects BREN GUNS, and hopes they will appreciate but mostly might just like owning them, but he could make a profit if he later sold one…”What are the terms as to where you cross the line from collector to illegal dealer or when are you not selling enough firearms to qualify as a dealer or manufacturer?”
Then we went back to “none of that is carved in stone because people would look for loopholes.”
I’ve had more intelligent conversations with hamsters, but they weren’t being stupid, they know the game they are playing, and the plan is to get everybody but large commercial people that will kow-tow for political reasons OUT OF THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY.
Bill Ruger sucked them off on the mag cap thing because he didn’t figure it would hurt their sales. If you play with odd stuff, they don’t care if you blow them or not. They still don’t want you in business.
They tossed C&R licenses out there to throw a bone to collectors who think they’re getting something besides registering to be an FFL and all the possible oversight that it can entail, as well as record keeping, without actually being able to do much interesting stuff. No offense but Paying $150 bucks and being able to do whatever you want as an 07 makes more sense than Paying 30 bucks to fiddle with old milsurps and still being subject to the capricious actions of the same agency and putting yourself FIRMLY on their radar.
Crufflers are like the Jews that registered their guns in the Weimar Republic. If your’e gonna bother sewing the Star Of David or Pink triangle on your clothes you may as well actually be able to do fun stuff outside of collecting antiques NOT FOR PROFIT, because if you seem to be in it for profit, they’ll have misgivings about your C&R, because you’re just supposed to be a collector.
False Bargain in the long run.
History will bear this out to be the truth just like in every other country that has had incremental regulation of small arms.
You think you’re winning with incorporation, C&Rs, and CCWs/CHLs, but in the long run, you just registered yourself as a suspect/watch list member for minimal benefit. Discount Moseying Naggers…Yippee!
Interesting stuff like my 19th century cartridge rifle collection are antiques and you don’t even need a C&R and appreciate because they aren’t a dime a dozen. Interesting modern firearms require a real FFL of some sort.
Take that to the bank.
You had your visit. I’ve got visits, entrapment attempts, possible lawsuits in both directions plus with FBI/NICS, and a lot of worthless letters and phone time back and forth.
Enjoy your local FFLs while they still have them, they are going away at an alarming rate. I’m not being Contrarian, I’m just OBSERVANT and have watched as friends had licenses rescinded for no rational reason. They didn’t get C&Rs after that either, they just said “SCREW THEM” and deal FTF with people on a collector basis. One friend had a 22 year pristine 01 rescinded for no reason at all that we can figure but they threatened to drag him through court long enough to bankrupt him and he was in his 70s. Wasn’t worth it.
Nice!
Now why would any one be;
“for those who are creeped out by the BATFE 03 FFLs (collectors of Curios and Relics)”
Why would anyone be that?
Or our we “creepy” because of our C&R FFL’s and collecting old relics?
That still go BOOM!!!
I tell a lot of people who are interested in guns and guns supplies to pony up and get their C&R FFL, as even if you don’t buy any guns, your FFL discount with Brownells and Midway USA among others will pay for the $30 fee inside of the first year.
I often get people grumpy about being on “Government lists” or about the paperwork requirements and the stipulation that the BATFE can request to inspect the C&Rs that are listed in your possession in your book, and to review your paperwork.
I think its foolish too.
Tax ID gets you the same discount and C&R is a really limited mode of being a “gun-non-dealer”.
I’m not grumpy about it at all. I’m just Forthright in WHAT I HAVE SEEN TO BE TRUE.
My Black Powder guns will explode noggins and rip arms and legs off and you don’t need a C&R…So your point?
My favorite FFL runs his shop from his detached garage. You walk between his truck and the wife’s van, and walk into a bunker full of goodies. First time I dropped in, I actually circled the block while my passenger called and confirmed the address.
Huh. Damned lot of FFLs in my town(s) that I was completely unaware of… might have to do some calling around. Thanks for the pointer!