Joan is just too pin-headed to not point out her reasoning difficulties.
Yeah- Anthony- that just doesn’t work for me. There’s a difference between alcohol and having alcohol and a gun at a frat party. Lots of bad things happen at frat parties when alcohol is consumed. But adding a gun to the mix can result in death. Frat parties have been going on for decades as well as drinking at frat parties. But allowing legally owned guns has not been in the mix. Why people want guns in the mix is totally beyond me and beyond reason, actually.
Odd, I went to school just North of Bangor Maine. This also happens to be the location where I made my transition from Anti-Gun, to Pro-Gun. Now when I went the Fraternity houses were designated “Gun Free Zones”, but historically that wasn’t always the case. One of the Fraternities I used to frequent for parties (I was never a member of any, but I was social with many) was founded as the fraternity for outdoorsmen. Used to be there was an armory in the basement, and I’m sure there were rifles and shotguns tucked in closets and under beds. Hell anybody my parent’s age remember kids taking guns to school so they could go hunting after class, or to participate in the school rifle or pistol team. Not only were there drinking parties there, but for some of that time the drinking age was 18!
I will say that I met more hunters and shooters in college than I had ever known before in my life at the time (That number has only increased), I drank at off-campus parties where the host owned guns, I’m sure those houses with guns was even greater than I was aware of.
I also know people who were hospitalized for Alcohol poisoning. One fraternity house on campus had a death when a drunk person fell off a balcony. Alcohol poisoning deaths, and drunk driving deaths are not uncommon things. Again Joan is painting a world we all know and live in differently. We all went to parties, we’re all aware of the risks accepted with this, and have seen people who made bad choices die. Joan is attempting to say that guns are the only relevant risk. We know this to be false.
“Why people want guns in the mix is totally beyond me and beyond reason, actually.” I wonder.
Be safe!
“Why people want guns … is totally beyond me”
A lot, a LOT is totally beyond her.
I don’t understand particle physics. The supercollider could create a black hole, right? Shut it down.
The last few times I was drinking I had a 1911 in a holster on my hip or another firearm within reach. Funny, I didn’t reach for my gun. I’ve been angry, very angry, while armed, and yet never reached for my gun. There are people out there, some that I know and see often, that I firmly believe fall into the category of ‘need killin.’ And yet they’re still alive and I will not act against them unless they put me in a position that makes me believe they are about to kill or seriously harm me or someone else.
I’m supposed to believe that it’s adding a gun to the situation that makes a situation get out of control? That it has nothing to do with personal responsibility or self control? I’m supposed to believe that when every day I see evidence of just the opposite looking back at me out of the mirror?
I’m with you, If I’m out and about I’m armed. If I stop for a meal and feel a beer might add to the experience I don’t hesitate. Now to be fair I don’t get drunk while carryings because that’s illegal, but I’ve never been so drunk to forget where combinations and keys were…for my guns, or my car.
Also what’s so special about guns? I take my gin on the rocks with a twist of lime. I cut the limes fresh while making my drinks. There have been several instances where I was working a knife while in a state that would be illegal for me to operate a gun or a vehicle. What kept me from killing my family? What kept me from amputating my digits? Do these things take much more effort with a knife than a gun?
Ther’s a common sense component, but then there’s just a prohibition movement.
I’d be rather more hesitant to handle a knife while drunk than a gun, actually. Guns just sit there quietly doing nothing unless you take a _very specific_ action — actuating the trigger. Knives, on the other hand, are remarkably easy to injure yourself with accidentally in the course of ordinary use. They don’t jump up off the table and kill people of their own volition, the way hoplophobes seem to imagine that guns do…but an occasion that starts with a vague desire for freshly-sliced cheese and ends with a very urgent need for first aid isn’t so much a matter of imagination, for me, as a matter of memory. 🙂
My only concern about mixing alcohol with guns is that you’re less likely to hit what you aim at. A person I can’t trust not to start shooting their friends and neighbors while drunk is a person I can’t trust not to do the same thing while sober.
“I’m supposed to believe that it’s adding a gun to the situation that makes a situation get out of control?”
No I believe the point is that if the situation gets out of control and there is a gun in it, someone is more likely to get shot instead of just punched in the face. The gun has nothing to do with the situation getting out of control. That’s largely the alcohol’s fault. The point is what happens after it goes pear-shaped.
I don’t have a problem with someone drinking in a house containing guns. Happens all the time. I don’t even have a problem with someone having a beer with a gun on their belt. Lite social drinking doesn’t have to cause impairment. I have a real problem with someone drinking to the point of impairing their coordination and reasoning abilities while also having possession of any deadly weapon. If you’re not capable of thinking straight and shooting straight, you shouldn’t be carrying.
Oh and at my college the leading cause of death was drunks not crossing streets or railroad tracks properly followed by falling from great heights.
Thankfully I am unaware of any state that allows the legally drunk to handle firearms. It still happens, but so does drunk driving.
My issue (although probably not Joan Peterson’s issue) is that if you allow people to drink some alcohol and carry, then some people aren’t going to be able to gauge their drinking accurately and will go over the legal limit. At which point you have a drunk with a gun. Not everyone that carries and drinks will have this problem, but a non-trivial number will.
Saying not to mix the two is a much simpler rule for everyone to abide by. It also reduces the gatekeeping problem to something similar to drinking and driving where the guy doesn’t get his gun/keys until he sobers up.
People get falling down drunk every day and still manage not to get in out of control situations. It’s not the alcohol either. It’s the individuals who can’t manage to control themselves and the nannies who go screaming “It’s the guns! It’s the drugs! it’s the alcohol!” all the while ignoring the single common factor which is individuals who lack self control.
Obviously Joan believes fraterenity brothers should not be permitted to keep vehicles on-campus or at their frat houses… right?
😉
No! Because guns are different!!! Guns are different because guns are different!
Yep, with japete guns will always be different until the day she confront criminal behavior
and understands it rather than blaming the tool.
I’m old enough to remember stupidity. to give it a number 58. When I went to school
rifle teams, Shotgun teams were not unusual and unremarkable and LI, NY was not out
in the woods. I was neither pro nor anti guns, didn’t own one then as hunting was
done far from home. Back then I had other interests some dangerous (racing
motocross, hydros). We all carried a pocket knife even many of us girls as you
never knew when you needed an edge to trim or cut something.
A lot of people I know used alcohol in bad ways and many are gone. Some fell to the
disease and many to the resulting crashes. Can’t blame cars for that. Some figured
it out early, some had it hit them between the eyes. Responsibility happens if you are
stupid. Either because you are responsible for what happened or enough so to insure
it didn’t happen. Those that didn’t we use somber or maybe hate filled words for.
Alcohol, guns, cars, ladders, electricity and a long list of things that can kill you or someone
if your not using it responsibly. If you are habitual in not being responsible or just a criminal
then yes maybe all of those are better kept from you.
Eck!
Speaking of “Lots of bad things happen at frat parties when alcohol is consumed”, you know what else happens at frat parties involving alcohol? Sometimes rape happens. But we wouldn’t want to allow women to carry because they should just accept they might be raped.
Maybe we just shouldn’t let “kids” go to college.
It’s not just the alcohol as others have said; there are muggings, rape, assaults, traffic collisions.
Maybe we just should keep ‘children’ home until they are mature enough to know better.
After all, no one needs a college education at 18, right?
Thank goodness guns are legal on campus in this state.
in fact I watched the state university petition the legislature to change that law, and the university was promptly rejected.
Who the heck said you have to DRINK at a party?
I don’t for religious reasons but also because I’m usually the driver for all of my friends. And now with my permit if some wanker wants to try and attack them on the way back to the car…