OK so first there is going to be a bit of speculation, but I’ve been reviewing so much hard data on this case I kinda want to get my thoughts out there. Since overall I feel the Zimmerman has been portrayed unfairly by the Media, the race-baiters, and the anti-rights cult, I’m going start with my admonishments of Mr. Zimmerman so I can be perfectly clear.
Mr. Zimmerman has been referred to as a “Neighborhood Watch Captain”, but from every report I’ve read there has been no such “neighborhood watch” for the neighborhood referenced, nor any subordinate watchmen coming forward for comment. It would appear that Mr. Zimmerman just had a hobby of driving around the neighborhood in the evening looking for crimes, and his frequent calls to police support that. **UPDATE** RWC links this story where another “Watch Captain” is interviewed, so maybe there was an organized watch. Thanks RWC!
I suspect Mr. Zimmerman is doing this out of his own good nature as a philanthropy. But if you want a “Neighborhood watch” organize and start one, don’t just start flying solo on your own volition. If there HAD been a watch, Zimmerman could have had almost immediate backup for both a corroborating witness, as well as potential help in the reported hand-to-hand struggle, without need for pulling his gun.
Most people just want to mind their own business, so if a watch can’t be arranged, just accept that and watch your own property, and simply be a good neighbor. My Neighbors and I are quite friendly and we like to tell each-other when we’re on vacation just so the others can keep an eye peeled for fishy behavior. It also makes a vacation more enjoyable because I know if I don’t hear a call, its likely everything is fine back at my castle.
The ONLY reason why Zimmerman was in this situation was because he was out LOOKING for situations to get involved in. I think we can all agree, guilty or innocent, none of us would like to trade places with Mr. Zimmerman right now. Remember that.
Ok so let’s just lay out the data I have. yesterday I reported on the Arrest report, and found an eyewitness account of the home owner who lived on the property where Mr. Martin died.
This sent me back to Sebastian’s place where he posted links to the 911 calls.
If you’ve read the police report and heard the witness listen to Zimmerman’s call.
Zimmerman calls to report a suspicious person wandering in the rain just looking at houses. Police ask him for a description and Zimmerman states he suspect the man is black but sounds unsure. The police ask where he is and he says he can’t give the exact address of the house he’s nearest because he can’t see the numbers from his truck. At this point he says the man spots him and begins to “Check him out”, and approach him. At this point he confirms that the man is black, and re-states he thinks something is wrong with him, and that he is carrying something in his hands, but he isn’t sure what. He doesn’t sound concerned that the person is armed, just suspicious.
From his tone I find it hard to believe he was “Profiling” a black teen. He just sees somebody in the dark wandering around in the rain. We have a saying around here where you say somebody “Doesn’t have the sense to come out of the rain”. I’ve seen pools and swimming areas clear out when rain starts falling. People are swimming in water and soaking wet, but they seek shelter when the water starts coming from above rather than below. I also think its odd that somebody would be walking in the rain without obvious direction and purpose, especially as the sun is setting.
While talking with the police Zimmerman suddenly, and with a bit of surprise notes that the person takes off running.
This is when you hear Zimmerman’s door open, and start hearing wind noise on the phone receiver. At no point do you hear feet pounding the pavement, excessive wind or breath noises, and Zimmerman continues to talk at a normal voice. The police ask if he’s following the subject, and he confirms this.
I would infer from this that Zimmerman started following Martin, but I hear nothing to imply he at all started to run, but it does sound like Martin took off at a decent jog from Zimmerman’s surprise. Honestly this is something I’d do as well. Whether he should have been there in the first place is irrelevant at this point, he’s now involved with the police of a suspicious person, I too would keep an eye on him at a safe distance.
The police tell Zimmerman no to pursue the person, and he gives them directions to the neighborhood mailboxes, and again states he doesn’t know the exact address. He tells the police to call him when they are on site and ends the call.
Now from Zimmerman’s account at this point he checked a home address and was returning to his truck when Martin jumped him from behind.
That sounds VERY believable. If Martin was afraid of Zimmerman or thought he was being pursued he could have taken off running. Martin was a tall athletic boy who played sports at school, Zimmerman is short and from his mug shot appears to have some extra weight on him. Also there is no evidence in the call that Zimmerman ever did anything but a brisk walk. If Martin had started running, even at a slow jog when reported, and Zimmerman was still in his car he could have opened a lot of distance between them.
Now listen to this 911 tape.
The first call takes place shortly after Martin has been shot and like all the calls confirms that the two men were on the ground fighting, one was yelling for “help” and then a shot was fired and Martin was killed. The second call on the clip appears to be shortly after Martin and Zimmerman made physical contact. You can hear somebody shouting for help, and the shouting goes on for some time before the single shot is heard. The 2nd Call you can hear the screaming from the first moment, and the caller immediately reports it, much of the call is redacted to protect the caller, but the gunshot is heard just under a minute into the call. That minute feels long for me, it would feel longer for the parties involved.
I can’t imagine that Zimmerman could have chased down and jumped Martin given the head start he had, and the physical differences between them. The eyewitness is the only account that identifies either party as the one shouting, and it certainly only sounds like a single voice from the call (which again is of poor quality and redacted heavily), and the eyewitness stated that it was the man with the red jacket as the person calling for help.
I can only reasonably deduce from this is that Zimmerman complied with the 911 operator’s request to not pursue Martin and simply checked a home address when returning to his truck to wait for the Police to arrive. At this point he was attacked by Martin who returned to the location. He called for help as Martin was on top of him and beating him. He may have been calling to the witness to help him, and when the guy shuttered his door he was left with the options of hoping Martin wouldn’t beat him to death, or drawing his gun.
I must say I see no evidence of the alleged “Stalking”, racist intent, or even of Zimmerman actually giving chase to Martin.
Of course like in the Rodney King trial the general public was rarely informed of Mr. King or the officer’s actions before the famous tape was made. The truth was King was drunk, possibly on drugs, and had led police on a high speed chase, was violent, and they were unable to subdue him with other devices before they turned to the batons.
The people, wildly misinformed, and stirred up by the specter of racism, rioted.
I have my concerns of history repeating itself. Be careful out there.
Great review and attention to detail.
I think it is probably accurate; especially given the police haven’t re-arrested Zimmerman, the evidence laid out supports his statements.
but it does sound like Martin took off at a decent jog from Zimmerman’s surprise. Honestly this is something I’d do as well.
Maybe I’m benefiting from hind sight or viewing this from my own planning; but I would not run away in a case similar to this.
1st is the old proverb “The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion. ” or the police version “If you had done nothing wrong, why did you run”. Running away has usually been associated with guilt.
2nd is the fact that Martin was a relative stranger to the area; running away gave him a greater chance of getting lost or turned around. Does it really make sense to run away when it might take you farther away from safety?
3rd — I have a problem with running because once you start, you had better keep going. This case clearly shows that; why did Martin stop where he did. All reports indicates he was only 70 yards away from the house he was staying.
Come on….a young athletic kid like Martin couldn’t go another 210 feet?
Especially when reaching the house would have put him safely in the company of friends and family?
It is only a vague theory, but if I had to guess I would guess that Martin was up to no good, maybe on drugs, and realized Zimmerman was calling the cops on him.
Still there are a LOT of holes in that story, and they would need to be stitched together under the umbrella of somebody with an altered mind.
Zimmerman claimed Martin looked like he was on drugs, maybe he was, or was in a mental state like a psychotic episode. Of course Zimmerman could be 100% wrong on all accounts.
We’ll have to wait for the autopsy report, as well has Martin’s school and legal record to be released.
“Mr. Zimmerman has been referred to as a “Neighborhood Watch Captain”, but from every report I’ve read there has been no such “neighborhood watch” for the neighborhood referenced, nor any subordinate watchmen coming forward for comment. It would appear that Mr. Zimmerman just had a hobby of driving around the neighborhood in the evening looking for crimes, and his frequent calls to police support that.”
I read a report that had the HOA asking residents to contact Zimmerman with concerns about the neighborhood. Can’t find it at the moment but will post it if I find it.
And here is another ‘captain’ of the neighborhood watch…
“SANFORD, Fla. – A neighbor of George Zimmerman and fellow neighborhood watch captain in their Florida gated community came to his defense Tuesday, saying Zimmerman shot Miami teenager Trayvon Martin after numerous burglaries at The Retreat at Twin Lakes.
Frank Taaffe pointed out the circumstances that he believes led his 28-year-old neighbor to react the way he did on the night of Feb. 26: Eight burglaries within 15 months, most done by young black males, he said.
“The stage was already set. It was a perfect storm,” Taaffe said.
“George is a congenial, amiable, admirable person,” he said. “He had a passion and a care for this neighborhood to ensure the safety of everybody here. And, furthermore, George is no Rambo.”
Taaffe said that Zimmerman was appointed as a watch captain, despite reports that he appointed himself to the post.
Link for that article.
Thanks That’s the first I’ve seen of that! Appreciated!
And I found the article that mentions the HOA –
The homeowners association’s February newsletter said that Sanford police had beefed up patrols in the neighborhood and that officers on bicycles were making random checks of front yards and backyards. It was not clear how big the neighborhood watch was, but Zimmerman was the dominant force.
“If you’ve been the victim of a crime within the community, after calling the police, please contact our captain, George Zimmerman … so we can be aware and help address the issue with other residents,” the newsletter said. It added that the neighborhood watch group was looking for more participants at its monthly meetings.
Thank you….good link.
“If Martin was afraid of Zimmerman or thought he was being pursued he could have taken off running. Martin was a tall athletic boy who played sports at school, Zimmerman is short and from his mug shot appears to have some extra weight on him.”
Just keep in mind that the Zimmerman mugshot is from 2005. And also keep in mind that the picture of Trayvon is from 2006 when he was 11 years old. (surely the media didn’t do that on purpose.)
NB: I read somewhere (wish I’d saved the link) that the number of calls from Zimmerman were over ELEVEN years, not a single year. Ah, here:
Spread over 11 years, 46 calls is a little more than a call every three months.
That’s still a lot. I think I’ve called 911 maybe 3 times (I can directly recall two of them, there might have been a 3rd) in my life.
I certainly was under impression he was calling more. Still I don’t think anybody questions his behavior of patrolling the neighborhood. While I’m sure it was a nice gesture, it was a short-sighted one.
Yeah; it’s way more than I’ve ever called 9-1-1, but it depends on the neighborhood, doesn’t it? Also, if he were appointed to be neighborhood watch captain (as the article RWC links claims), some calls may have been “routed” through him.
Good point, it does sound like he he WAS part of a watch group, so if it was his watch possibly it would be his job to call 911 and direct the cops in the event of a situation.
Certainly, while there has yet been a need, as the head a of convention security, it would have been my job to call 911 if any emergency happened on the convention floor, even if it didn’t directly involve me.
The most important thing is, I don’t think the number of calls would have been enough to get him qualified as a nuisance. The 46-in-one-year “fact” paints him as an annoyance to law enforcement, as someone tying up emergency resources for little cause. The truth leaves him as an outlier, but not abusive.
I’ve called about a dozen times in my life for various issues. (1/2 for drunk drivers.)
I’ve yet to have a single response from a police officer. They’re usually to busy sitting at speed traps in the boonies handing out county fundraiser raffle tickets.
Yeah the last time I called 911, I was driving to the store and came across a young man having a psychotic episode, or a drug reaction in the middle of a 35mph town road. He was yelling violently at passing cars and I was concerned he was going to get run down or hurt somebody. I pulled into a side street and called 911. Crazy bastard picked that street, of all streets to walk down and actually started yelling at me. I had my gun on the center console of my truck (I don’t think he could see it from where he was). I told him I had no business with him and to leave me alone, and thankfully he did.
The cops just said “Oh that’s just XXXX He does that.” Wow!
I used to do security work and would call 911 on average of once a month. Add a couple calls a month to non-emergency.
That’s pretty close to the version of the events that I have been building by doing the standard “the truth is somewhere in the middle” bit listening to the statements of both sides, and looking at the evidence. Personally, I think the question of who jumped first in the physical scuffle is a little too close to the line than can be called with the information at large and possibly may never be known for sure.
EITHER Martin decided to jump first to even the playing field. I believe he was honestly afraid that he was being followed for neofarious reasons. If you look from his viewpoint, what other reason would someone have to follow him. This “jumping first”, of course, is very least of questionable legality, but in my view understandable given the circumstances.
OR Zimmerman caught up after he hung up with 911 (in his car or on foot) and confronted Martin, possibly even grabbing him “to keep him from getting away”. Martin’s Girlfriend’s statements about their phone call do suggest that this confrontation happened, and don’t suggest that Martin returned to make it happen (although, you wouldn’t expect her to say so if she thought he did). If this was the case, particularly if Mr. Zimmerman grabbed Mr. Martin, then Mr. Martin was perfectly within his rights to defend himself. You wouldn’t expect Mr. Zimmerman to come out with the information that he tried to physically restrain Mr. Martin either.
So there we have the unknown. Did Zimmerman grab Martin? Block his way in a way that could be construed as a violent act? Get confrontational? Possibly even show or warn that he was armed? Did Martin return to get some payback? All questions that we probably won’t ever know the answer to.
This was a tragedy, and we may never know for sure exactly who was more at fault. We will all have our own opinions about it. For me, the lesson here is to leave people the fuck alone! To my view, it is irrefutable that had Mr. Zimmerman NOT followed Mr. Martin at all, there would have been no scuffle, there would have been no shooting, and everyone would be happy and still breathing free. While that may not include LEGAL culpability, in my view it does include MORAL culpability. Again… LEAVE PEOPLE THE FUCK ALONE!
Oh, and as Weer’d says… Carry your guns people, because you can never count on people, especially criminals, leaving YOU the fuck alone.
while I guess the version of events outlined could have happened… You have to think that if Martin ran and then doubled back to “attack” Zimmerman, Why would he attack Zimmerman with a bag of skittles and ice tea in his hands…. wouldn’t martin stash his items if he had gained ground and then decided to double back and “attack” Zimmerman….
Also if Martin was up to no good and ran because he thought Zimmerman was calling the police, why would he attack Zimmerman… Wouldn’t he keep running given the fact that his destination was close by?
Anything is possible because we truely don’t know what happened but this version of events have far more holes than the theory in the media.
Nothing I’ve read actually puts the candy or drink can in Martin’s hands at his time of death. He could have easily held on to the drink can — an effective weapon that MIGHT account for the scalp laceration on the back of Zimmerman’s head while the skittles were in the pocket of the hoody.
As far as why Martin attacked, if he had the typical thug attitude he could have seen Zimmerman’s actions as disrepecting him — more then enough of a reason for some people to attack.
That is exactly my question and to me is indicative that a.) Either lost his way or b.) was out of breath and couldn’t run any further or c.) decided to confront the person following him.
C fits better with the supposed conversation he had with his girlfriend.
I can certainty see why Martin would run if he thought he was being followed, but I’m not sure why he would come back and attack Zimmerman, especially if he did not have a weapon. Also I can see a teenager walking slowing in the rain while talking on the phone to his girlfriend, in no rush to get home. I can’t see how it became so explosion that a gun had to be fired. If there was a fight, why not just use your hands and fight.
Does anyone know why Zimmerman has a mugshot? Also are there any recent pictures of Martin? I read that he turned 17 last month and the picture of him in the hoodie was the most recent picture.
Zimmerman has a mug shot because of the arrest for assaulting a cop; a charge that was dismissed.
It could have also been from the night of the incident; when the cops took Zimmerman to jail. If you read the reports, it was taken in and then released when the preliminary investigation showed a lack of evidence to hold him.
If Martin thought someone was following him and started running, why did he stop running only 70 yards from the house he was staying?
I can also see Martin walking slowly, casing houses for burglary, having his alibi of getting a snack set up. Can you?
You bring up several interesting points .
There are several scenarios that could have occurred. Z could have driven ahead and stepped of the car to confront M. M could have returned to confront Z about following him. Both situations are plausible but the question really is which one is most likely. The legal system should have stepped in earlier and brought in Z for questioning since it was a shooting resulting in a fatality. This would have at least minimized the political outrage.
It sounds like to me it was a case of a public person stepping up to confront a problem in his neighborhood and the situation spiraling tragically out-of-hand.
Hate, anger and frustration has no racial boundaries, the truly sad part is that the national spotlight on this case and will probably spark events on other parts of the country resulting in harm to people that had nothing to do with this case. Some people will turn any event into an excuse to take out their own personal tragedies on others.
The only reason I can see why Martin would have stopped running and did not proceed to his destination is because for some reason he had to — the fight or flight theory. This is where the story gets murky — were there words exchanged? The girlfriend claims she heard Martin ask someone “why are you following me”. If Martin felt threatened, I can see him fighting because he felt he was in danger. Remember, Zimmerman was not following (or addressing) Martin as a police officer, just an unknown man following someone at night. I myself would have been nervous and would have had my gun ready had he approached me.
I would be more inclined to believe the casing houses for burglary theory if there was some indication that Martin had some previous history with criminal behavior — robbery, drugs, etc. We will have to wait to see what is revealed. Absent a past history, that same theory could be applied to everyone out walking in the neighborhood that night — walking a dog, out for a walk after dinner, etc. What made Martin so suspicious? He was talking on the phone via an earpiece (probably gesturing while talking); he pulled the hoddie on because it was raining; he was walking slowly maybe because he was prolonging the discussion with his girlfriend (outside the earshot of his parent). Honestly, taking into consideration the recent burglaries in the neighbor, I could see where this would raise Zimmerman’s suspicions, especially if he could not see the earpiece and did not recognize Martin as someone that had been in the neighbor previously. At this point, why not just call 911 and wait for the police? Also how is it that Zimmerman, the neighbor watch person does not know where he is in the neighborhood at the time he calls the cops? Not sure how long he has been living in the neighborhood, but was it really necessary to get out of the car and walk up to the mailbox to determine the location? I’m not sure how large this community is, but could he have not just given the street and unit block?
I honestly don’t think Zimmerman set out or even meant to kill Martin, but I do think he was overzealous in his approach to patrolling the neighborhood. I think had he stopped following Martin when he was told to by the dispatcher, Martin would have made it home that night.
What made Martin so suspicious?
His own family inadvertently made it clear that Martin was in fact prowling the neighborhood.
– initially Martin was supposed to be the guest of his dad’s girlfriend (who claimed the shooting happened when Martin was going to a store, on his way back, or sitting on the porch… all in one breath)
– all land, streets, and sidewalks in the subdivision are privately owned.
– the subdivision is fenced and gated.
– only residents have the ‘right’ to be in the subdivision.
– invited guests have the ‘privilege’ to be in the subdivision.
– when asked why it took so long to notice he was missing, his family said they thought he was staying someplace else.
Sorry Martin, just because you were once a houseguest, it doen’s mean you can wander in my property any time you want.
It wasn’t Z’s property where the incident occurred, so if revoking M’s “wondering” right doesn’t add up, especially if as you say, all the property is privately owned.
As far as his families comments are concerned they are under distress and when in someone is experiencing emotions on that level they may babble and misconstrue information. Being confused about anything after a loved one has been killed is understandable.
Sorry George, just because you carry a gun doesn’t make you a cop.
The incident was indirectly the result of Z’s actions. Did he act in self defense, it is more then likely, but only after he had engaged in both a verbal and physical fight of which he ended up on the losing end of.
Nope, but because the Neighborhood apointed him as a Watch Captain that made him a neighborhood watch.
There are three sides to the truth, Martin’s side of the story, Zimmerman’s side of the story, and then the TRUTH. After examining the facts we’re missing Martin’s side of the story. So it’s unfair to try a speculate on what really happened. The evidence points to a physical confrontation before the shooting. I as Young Black Male would not let anyone follow me anywhere without a confrontation. Simply because in my life walking down the street anywhere in America and being followed means I’m about to be robbed. Martin asked “why are you following me?” Are we to speculate that Zimmerman then stopped following Martin? Then he went back to his car and Martin attacked him from behind? In the event of fear or in the event of feeling like you’re about to be caught doing something wrong people flee. They don’t confront a situation that they are unsure of. Martin wouldn’t attack a person if he was “HIGH” unarmed and not sure if the person he was confronting was armed. The following is not a stereotypical statement. Young Black men know that most physical fights in the streets end in gun play. So we play chess, if I were to approach a physical fight with someone I’m about at least 75% sure that person is playing on a equal playing field with me or I have the ADVANTAGE. Here clearly the advantage for Martin was not surprise. So why would he attack someone he wasn’t sure he could win against? Here I’m questioning Martin’s logic, yet I know in a life or death situation A decision is made when there is no alternative. Zimmerman clearly tried to apprehend Martin. Which is why he hung up the 911 phone call. The few times I called 911 I stayed on the phone until police arrived. The operators ask you to do this as well, and answer all types of questions to keep you calm. Zimmerman hung up for a reason. They told him to stop trying to be a vigilante but he was determined. Now I don’t believe he meant to kill Martin. He tried to apprehend him and Martin fought back which caused the minor injuries Zimmerman suffered including breaking his nose. Hoping he would survive or get away from Zimmerman. I believe Zimmerman then became afraid himself and shot him. Now is that self defense? The question still remains in my mind. Can this truly happen in America? Can I get a gun and start patrolling the streets of Brooklyn and shoot suspicious characters if they fight back after I try to apprehend them under false pretenses? I guess it remains unanswered……………….
As a young black male you will NOT be able to get a gun in Brooklyn. That’s the joy of New York gun laws. You need to be rich and politically connected to enjoy your right to keep and bear arms in NYC.
You’re absolutely right about NYC gun laws. Truly that makes me feel a little safer when I’m walking home from work late at night with my hoodie on.
Good luck with that. NYC criminals tend not to care much about NYC gun laws, nor their knife laws, nor laws against rape, robbery, assault, drug dealing, etc.
But if those laws make you feel better, go for a stroll in central park after dark, and lead a forwarding address where I can send flowers.
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