So here’s another story of an alleged gun owner who wants to ban guns talking about how to win the debate:
Home • Op-Ed • How to Win an Argument With a Gun Nut EVERY Time!
How to Win an Argument With a Gun Nut EVERY Time!Posted by: Richard Rowe in Op-Ed, The Gun Control Debate November 15, 2013
I’m a gun owner and enthusiast. My owning/firing credentials include everything from AK-47, AR-15, SPAS-12 and Dragunov to Barrett 50 cal, an original German Sturmgewehr, pistols, a couple of flamethrowers, and at least one radio-controlled A-10 equipped with a site camera and full-auto BB gun. We called it “The PredaHog.” Call it a byproduct of having been raised in Central Florida, or maybe just a gearhead affinity for machines of purpose — but I do love cool weapons.
PredaHogs aside, I’m also one of the 88% of gun owners who think that our weapons policies should periodically evolve(!) from the peerless Garden of Eden that was 1776. That, the fact that I live dead-center in StandYourGroundsville, FL and the that I write for AATTP brings me into pretty regular conflict with some of the nuttiest gun nuts out there. Case in point, CJ Grisham, of Open Carry Texas.
OCT’s made a bit of news lately, from helping to organize the Alex Jones-attended gun orgy at the Alamo last month, to more recently standing their ground against a few unarmed, female gun reform advocates last week. After having been thoroughly, and rightly, demonized by myself and others for this blatant act of intimidation, CJ posted an invitation to publicly debate Ms. Watts of Mothers Demand Action. Here’s an excerpt from it:
“We will also accept the Texas Chapter President of MDA if Shannon doesn’t feel intelligent or confident enough to handle an open debate. OCT will NOT be open carry at the event so MDA can feel safe and secure in its ignorance and false sense of safety.”
CJ kindly left his email at the bottom, so I decided to take him up on the offer with a recorded, public debate on Skype. CJ, brave and wise warrior that he was, repeatedly dodged the bullet; apparently, he’s not comfortable talking to people who don’t express fear of him. After several exchanges, his ever-changing excuses included:
“No thanks. Our offer was to MDA since they have defamed our organization with lies.” (as opposed to defaming it with the truth?)
Then: “We are only extending the offer to anti-gun groups.”
…And then, of course, “Shall not be infringed.”I retorted several times that I’ve personally defamed OCT plenty over the last couple of weeks to tens of thousands of people a day, and that the majority of AATTP’s audience (which is about 200,000 times larger than MDA) is as anti-gun as it gets. I practically BEGGED him to openly debate… but, my not being an unarmed woman, he declined.
Aside from getting some laughs at another brave Second Amendment soldier, I mention this exchange to make a specific point. These people only understand fear. Without intimidation, without the illusion of superiority, they’re just firing blanks. They’re brave target-shooters, but suddenly develop wet pants when the target is prepared to fire back.
Below is a list of my most frequently fired shots: the rounds I keep in my chamber for the daily firefight that is being a (somewhat) sensible gun enthusiast. Not all of them are going to take down the target. Half of these people have such thick heads, a 30 mm cannon wouldn’t penetrate. But they’ll at least feel these hits, and that’s usually all it takes to send them running. Some are statistical responses, some are just observations I like to use.
(PS: Last word to CJ Grisham, OCT or anyone else from any gun psycho group: You’re a b****, everyone in your organization is a b****, and real cowboys come from Florida.)
BASIC DOs AND DON’TsDO understand that there are lots of different types of gun owners. Some have them for protection, and some are gearheads who just like them as machines. Some people collect certain types of guns because they’re cool, and others just like stuff that’s loud, spits fire and blows holes in things. Often, a gun enthusiast is some combination of all of these.
DON’T lump the above gun owners in with the “Second Amendment” crowd. These 2A people own guns primarily because they feel inadequate, and live in fear because of it. They’re terrified of meeting an equal, and will almost always run from a fight if they don’t have a clear advantage going in.
DO remember at all times that these 2A people live in a state of constant fear, and they resent others who don’t. They’re going to do everything they can do to make others feel the same way they do.
DON’T bother with the “phallic symbol” thing. They don’t understand what it means, and the “inadequacy” they feel is a bit more layered than that. They might feel inadequate physically, but it may just as easily be mental or emotional. Often, they feel unprepared to compete in the modern world… because they are.
DO call them out on their fear, weakness and inadequacy…but BE EMPATHETIC. Be SYMPATHETIC about their shortcomings. It’s the one thing they absolutely cannot stand. Especially when you point out that the gun itself only proves their fear, weakness and sense of inadequacy. Make them face their demons, and force them to regard the gun itself as a symbol of their fear. Do that, and they’ll eventually come to hate it on principle.
So got that? Don’t lump all gun owners together, know that there are different types. Good point! Also DO lump them all together as stupid, fearful people with no valid argument for gun ownership!
BTW, does this also apply to the author who allegedly owns several guns?
There is plenty more to fisk, but unfortunately I don’t have the time still this one needs to be called out:
“Gun regulations are a slippery slope…GUN GRABBING IS NEXT!”
The United States passed its first gun control laws prior to the Civil War, criminalizing possession of firearms by blacks. Be honest, what’s your opinion on THAT one?
Gun regulations have existed in the United States for about 150 years, evolving many times since then to cover machine guns, assault rifles, Saturday Night Specials and undetectable firearms. And you can still carry an AR-15 around with a .45 in your back pocket.
A little pejorative, still this guy is legitimate about wanting a debate, because in the comments the author said:
he gun nuts are partially right…if we instituted a gun ban today, only the legally compliant owners would turn them in. It would be like turning the wolves loose in the henhouse. Over the long term…yeah, EVENTUALLY all or almost all of the guns would get confiscated. But that could take 100 years with all the guns out there now. In the meantime, we’d probably wind up turning everywhere in America into a maximum security prison to protect an unarmed populace.
If we’d have instituted a ban 100 years ago, I don’t doubt we’d be fine today. But Pandora’s box has already been opened, and too many evils have escaped. Slamming the lid now isn’t going to do much good. Sad fact is, we’re just going to have to slowly ramp things down, or all Hell’s going to break loose.
My suggestion is the same now as it’s always been…put a $200 or 20% tax on all new guns, and use the money to start buying back old guns at a little over market value for disposal. Least that’ll reduce the number of gun enough that we can seriously begin re-thinking the second amendment.
So we should trust him, he’s not a “Gun Grabber” like the rest….he just wants to put a massive tax on all guns and start grabbing them… Man that’s too rich.
Also “We need to re-think the Second Amendment”, and yet never once does he talk about self defense. He does talk about the whole “Tyrannical Government will kill you with drones…so just give up now”, which I think has been pretty well debunked in Iraq and Afghanistan, but never about the softer side of the true Second Amendment, that we have the right to shoot violent criminals.
He does talk a little about spree shooters, but again falls into the anti-gun trope that somehow if bad guys don’t have guns, then good guys would NEVER need guns. Yeah, we know about “Gun Death”.
So dive into this one. Also to Mr. Richard Rowe, you are welcome in my comments section to discuss this issue with other rational gun owners. Please leave a comment!
Who would make the “market value” determination for this publicly funded gun buy? The local police? This would make it possible for me to sell a discarded missile transport tube (worth $20 or so) to the local cops for the fair market value of a TOW missile launcher.
He claims to be a gun owner. I wonder if he even knows what caliber any of the guns he supposedly owns is. He claims to own an original Sturmgewehr. That is a machine gun. I doubt that he knows that, or the laws surrounding it.
Why Joan Peterson, of course!
@ Divemedic: Hey man….noooo…I didn’t own that gun. I don’t have the licensing for it, and I couldn’t have bought it if the owner WERE willing to sell. Not without mortgaging my house. I said in the introduction that these were my owning/firing credentials; sorry if there was any misunderstanding. I have owned most of the guns listed (including the Barrett and the PredaHog), but some were just guns that I’ve fired. And yes, the Sturmgewehr was awesome. A little on the slow side compared to an AK, but still a chainsaw.
In any case, I’m not really sure who would determine the “fair market value” of a gun buyback. I’d be inclined to say “Whatever they go for on the used market now.” Practically speaking, it would be as high as possible…hopefully higher than market value. Nobody’s going to sell a gun to a buyback if they can get more somewhere else. If we’re going to reduce the number of guns out there, particularly in the ghetto, that’s the way to do it. Wouldn’t be ten minutes before every crackhead with a .38 dropped that thing for a few rocks.
LOL…that’s not a bad idea about the TOW missile tube. That would probably work for mortars, too. Mr thinks somebody just found a new career path…
wow, so how you “Win a debate” is by note remotely taking the topic seriously?
The Machine gun market is a prime example of why you plan would never work. You propose DESTROYING seized firearms, which will simply raise the market value…especially if new guns are being produced, as by your definiton you would have to be able to buy a gun for X, and then turn it in for desttuction for X+Y.
Or you can ban all new production, which is exactly the gun banners 2nd Amendment supporters fear.
But judging by your comment you have neither thought about this very much, nor are particularly concerned to.
Hell, his post is on the web site Americans Against The Tea Party. Pretty much told me all I needed to know right there.
Certainly doesn’t help, does it?
Also his post has the tag “Gun Control Debate”, and the rest of the sight is all hateful anti-gun drek. His post is LITERALLY the MOST thoughtful and LEAST hateful in that category.
Yeah hardly the platform to win friends and change minds. But we’ll see, they did approve my comment linking to this post.
Filthy Farago jumped in too, so we’ll see if he’s really interested in a “Debate” where he might actually encounter people who know a thing or two on the issue.
“His post is LITERALLY the MOST thoughtful and LEAST hateful in that category.”
LOL…well, I’ll assume that’s faint praise at best. I’ll take it, though. But, yeah, that’s why I do a lot of gun articles on AATTP. If the Admins had their way, I’d probably do all of them. The only reason I don’t is because I physically can’t keep up with all the gun crimes and 2A nuttiness that goes on every day. Mostly because I happen to LIKE weapons of all kinds, at least as machines. Guns, swords, explosives, military aircraft, tanks…if it was good enough to interest DaVinci, then I’m not above it.
I’m as “against the tea party” as anyone, but I was also born and raised in the woods in Central Florida…I’m about the most conservative writer on the site, and they know it. That’s exactly why I don’t do certain articles. AATTP is a very left-leaning site, and I don’t agree with the Left on every issue. But we’re allies to the same cause insofar as the Tea Party and what it represents…so there we are.
Listen, man…I’m no stealth gun-grabber. Yes, we’ve got more than a few on this side of isle, particularly on AATTP. No doubt. But like most people, I really only want to see the regulations already in place thoroughly enforced. That’s it. This isn’t a legislation issue, it’s an enforcement one. To the extent that I personally WOULD change the laws, it would be to apply the requirements for a (Florida) concealed carry permit to gun ownership period, and then allow anyone who meets those requirements to carry whatever they like. Carry a grenade launcher for all I care…as long as you’re responsible with it.
Combine that with a very fairly priced buyback program, and we could probably maintain the system we have now for a few hundred years.
BTW, just so you know: Even though I live in gun nut central, I don’t carry one any more. I’ve worked enough security to know that guns escalate little problems into big ones pretty quickly. I carry knives usually, and I’ve found a six-foot length of Twaron rope with a weight on the end to be very helpful. I carry a sword under my coat when I’m walking around the neighborhood at night. I’ve looked down the barrels of guns before, and haven’t encountered a situation yet where one of those things (and my own brain) would have done me any less good than a gun of my own. I’ve been shot three times, and all three times I was carrying one of my own. Believe me when I tell you, there isn’t a gun on Earth that makes you bullet proof. Especially when the other guy pulls first.
Your glib tone, plus your meandering discussion that only vaguely touches on anything of relevance to this discussion. Further I’m finding many of your statements very difficult to swallow.
So let’s restart this with something a little more direct.
Can you please tell me in as much detail as you can, about your three times being shot?
If you’re so “I’m not after your guns,” one wonders why you care about buybacks. You do realize that buybacks turn the police into the safest place to fence weapons that have been used in a right right?
But that doesn’t touch the latter part of your comment where you go all “I have a girlfriend in Canada.”
So… carrying guns just escalates the situation but carrying over a foot of edged steel or a bolo is just kosher.
Also gotta love the strawman of “Guns don’t make you bulletproof!”
So… after you got shot several times… you decided that guns weren’t helpful… and you started carrying a sword… under your coat.
Are you sure you’re not confusing your life with a certain 1986 movie?
I’m thinking we got trolled.
You’ve been shot three times?
A good friend of mine has spent a combined three years in Iraq and Afghanistan doing combat patrols and hasn’t been shot once, let alone three times.
I know several cops and I don’t know any who’ve been shot once in their career, let alone three times. The cop who’s been shot once is pretty rare.
In fact, the only people I’ve ever heard about who’ve been shot that many times in their lives are drug dealers and gang bangers (I watch the History Channel, I’ve never known any of those).
So my conclusion is that either a) you’re doing it wrong (and by “it” I mean life in general) or b) you are somewhat less than perfectly honest
A sword? Under your coat?
I’m leaning towards “b”.
BTW: I find it interesting that you mentioned that the StG-44 “was a little on the slow side” compared to an AK-47. Interesting because their listed rate of fire is pretty much identical. 550-600rpm for the StG and 600rpm for the AK.
You must have a VERY finely tuned sense of timing to be able to discern a maximum difference between the two of .009 seconds between shots.
Either that your you’re just blowing smoke in trying to simulate “gun creds”.
I think we’re right back to “b” again.
Yep, My vote is “B” as well.
Also his brief burst of non-response comments, and now his total disregard shows how honest he is about debating the issue, despite his comments to the contrary.
As soon as he said he owned a Sturmgewehr I stopped paying much attention. Pull the other one, it has bells on it.
He said “owned/fired” I’m thinking the reality is that he owned a pimped 10/22, and just shot off a round or two when his uncle took him to Knob Creek one year.
so far his comments here aren’t passing much of a smell test. I’m not dismissing him quite yet…but he’s not making that very easy.
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