So in the final hours of the George Zimmerman trial we’re seeing the anti-rights fanatics are hanging their identity in a known troubled, violent, and drug-using teen. Because guns are bad, and drug-using violent teens are just “Misunderstood”.
BTW they are also trying to hang OUR identity on Adam Kokesh, who acted alone, and frankly I first heard about him from the anti-gun blogs.
How can things be more ridiculous? I wrote in a previous post about the nonsensical but also stupid and dangerous ideas espoused by gun rights activist and libertarian Adam Kokesh. This dangerous proponent for gun rights has now been arrested for possession of drugs and other charges….So from Kokesh’s provocative statements about the “final American Revolution”, law enforcement had pretty good reason to believe that Kokesh was ready to act on his words. Such stupid, ridiculous and dangerous rhetoric should not be acceptable given Kokesh’s past antics. And doesn’t Kokesh, who seems to know so much about everything else, know the rules about gun possession/carrying and the use of drugs? I thought people who got permits to carry guns in public are trained not only to use those guns properly and safely but also to understand the state rules about carrying while on drugs or consuming alcohol. Permit holders don’t always follow the rules as we have seen way too many times.
When the corporate gun lobby promotes the use of guns to fight against the government, this is what we get. When the NRA lobbyists and their supporters believe they need to have guns with them everywhere they go, this is what we get. When there are over 300 million guns in circulation combined with the fear and paranoia promoted by the corporate gun lobby, this is what we get.
Sorry Joan, but Kokesh is speaking for the NRA about as much as Trayvon Martin was speaking for the Brady Campaign on the night when he assaulted George Zimmerman. Of course nobody is supporting Kokesh in his crazy actions, but the list is long of people supporting Trayvon Martin from anti-rights bloggers and paid activists like Joan, all the way to the Department of Justice and the White House.
Jason “Baldr” Kilgore of Cease Fire Oregon steps up to defend everything that is wrong with urban youth today:
One drizzly night in March, 2012, George Zimmerman, the self-appointed “neighborhood watch”
guy, stalked an unarmed 17-year old Trayvon Martin through an apartment complex against the advice of a 911 operator, confronted the boy, and shot him to death after a tussle.
Tussle? A “Tussle” is an inconsequential fight with minimal injuries, not a life-and-death struggle.
He then links this foolish list of questions. I haven’t been following the trial very closely so there might be some details I miss. If you can add to any of my answers, please do so in the comments!
1. Why get out of the vehicle? : To see where Martin ran off to. If you don’t have eyes on the subject when Police arrive they likely won’t arrest or detain anybody unless they see somebody who meets a VERY specific description or see somebody openly breaking a law.
Why not roll down the window and actually talk to Trayvon, say, “hey man, what’s up? You okay? I am neighborhood watch?” : Because he was on the phone with the 911 dispatch at the time and according to Zimmerman’s account Martin was only at his window for a few seconds.
3. Why didn’t George follow the police operator’s instructions to not follow Trayvon? Listen to the tape, He did. Tho to be fair the operator was NOT a officer and had no authority to give orders, and likely doesn’t have the experience or knowledge to give sound advice.
4. How did George, as the neighborhood watch captain, who had made 40-plus prior reports, who was right near his best friend’s house who had gone door-to-door and knew that area, claim to not know that area that night?: That I don’t know…but I will say that maybe its because I live in New England where every house is from a different year, design, and color. These Southern Housing developments are DAMN easy to get lost in because EVERY HOUSE looks the same, and the landscaping is VERY similar.
5. How did Trayvon jump him at the T but every piece of evidence and witness testimony is dozens of yards from there, including the phone that fell to the ground when the initial confrontation happened.: Haven’t seen these evidence files, or read such an account. Anybody?
6. How did Trayvon come out of bushes when there were no bushes? See above
7. How did George lose a fight to a kid he outweighed, when George paid over $100 per month for MMA classes for a year before this fight (which was subsequently named as the “George Zimmerman Training Program”) and he was the aggressor coming towards Trayvon? : Martin was taller than Zimmerman and they were close to the same weight. Zimmerman also states the first blow of the fight was Martin punching him in the nose. That ONLY happens when you’re coming towards somebody.
8. Why did you tell the detective you spread out Trayvon’s hands, yet his body was found with them on the interior of his body? Two possibilities spring to mind. #1. Martin was still alive long enough to clutch at his wound before he died. #2. Posturing from brain hypoxia as he died.
9. You have been portrayed as a docile guy who couldn’t fight, but didn’t you attack a cop? Weren’t you arrested for fighting? Didn’t your ex get a restraining order for stalking and allege verbal and physical abuse? The “Fight” Zimmerman was arrested for was simply laying his hand on an undercover officer who was arresting a friend of his WITHOUT identifying himself as an officer. Zimmerman mistook this as a fight and attempted to separate the two. The officer, decided he’d go a step further and arrested Zimmerman for “Assault”. His breach of procedure, and the foolishness of the charges is why all charges were dismissed.
AND….
10. Why did he need to load an extra bullet in the chamber to go to Target?: I’m glad you know NOTHING about firearms, but feel the need to pass judgement.
I think all my readers know you ALWAYS carry a round in the chamber…I mean God Forbid you have a drugged up teenager on top of you beating your head into the pavement. You might not have the extra hand to chamber a round.
Further Zimmerman was UNDER-Gunned. He was carrying just one Kel-Tec PF9, which only holds 7+1 and NO EXTRA MAGAZINE! Not only is this a VERY small amount of ammo, but in the event of a magazine malfunction you will be unable to do a quick mag swap. ALWAYS carry at least one reload…I prefer to carry two.
So yeah this is just a bunch of ignorant judgement foisted on people who are more interesting in a lynching than justice.
Further this pro-criminal sentiment is what’s building up the tinder for race riots in the event Zimmerman is acquitted or gets a minor sentence.
There will be blood on their hands for fueling this, and they will want to blame ANYBODY else.
This is a lie, BTW. The trainer, in a vain attempt to stop the madness, put a page on his website AFTER he testified saying “if you have questions about George Zimmerman training program, send your contact details. I’ll answer after the verdict.” In other words, if you have questions about what training Zimmerman received. He wasn’t advertising a training program under Zimmerman’s name.
Which makes sense, since he testified that the training did nearly nothing to improve Zimmerman’s hand-to-hand skills.
Legal Insurrection did a stellar job with the coverage:
http://legalinsurrection.com/tag/george-zimmerman-trial/
Great for anyone who wants to delve into it.
I’ve been following the case on Legal Insurrection also.
Regarding Question #1 Zimmerman exited his vehicle to get an address, since he was in back of the houses none of the street addresses were visible.
Regarding #7 Two witnesses testified that Zimmerman was completely inept at fighting, his trainer wouldn’t let him box with another person for fear that he would get hurt. WITH boxing gloves. Not admitted as evidence were texts from Martin bragging about how good of a fighter he was and that he knew how to sucker punch somebody.
Listening to the videos of the actual testimony of the state’s witnesses, you get the clear impression that most of them believed Zimmerman is not guilty and made every attempt to show that. And these are witnesses called by the STATE.
The fact that this case went to trial at all is very troubling.
Oh, and the restraining order from the ex was mutual and removed soon afterwards.
Sorry Joan, but Kokesh is speaking for the NRA about as much as Trayvon Martin was speaking for the Brady Campaign on the night when he assaulted George Zimmerman.
Given the illegality of Martin’s behavior (that night and prior) he would have been a good candidate as a spokesperson for Mayors Against Illegal Guns !
3. Why didn’t George follow the police operator’s instructions to not follow Trayvon?
Uh, because he was following the dispatchers prior instruction to “let us know if he does anything else” — so finding out where he went was obeying the dispatcher, wasn’t it Jason?
4. How did George, ….claim to not know that area that night?:
This one is even easier. Martin ran in between the ‘back of the town homes’ so to speak. Not down a road but could have easily cut over to any one of 3 different streets. Given that Zimmerman was asked to ‘let the dispatcher know’ — he was trying to figure out which of the streets to point out. As you say, cops show up and can’t see the suspicious person then they are likely to move on.
10. Why did he need to load an extra bullet in the chamber to go to Target?:
It isn’t an ‘extra bullet in the chamber’ it is the standard capacity for firearms; see literature stating 7+1, 10+1, etc. And he didn’t load it in that fashion to go to Target. He loaded it, just like everyone else, cops, marshals, etc; to go everywhere….including his own home where there had been a rash of burglaries and at least one home invasion.
I’ve been following the case on Legal Insurrection (see above comment – FANTASTIC coverage), and at Law of Self Defense (same writer), but it’s a LOT to read through at once, so I’ll clarify a bit, based on what’s been reported.
#1: You’re correct.
#2: Correct again.
#3: Correct, and the dispatcher-in-question stated that their policy is to NOT give specific instructions, so they’re not liable for damages should something bad happen to someone following their instructions. They give suggestions.
#4: I’ve heard (unsubstantiated) that the community recently re-named the streets, which would increase confusion. More concretely, I recall a witness testify that she didn’t know all the street names in the area, even some close to her own home. Subdivisions can be confusing (this is personal experience talking).
#5: As far as I can tell, the scuffle happened NEAR the “T”, not AT the “T”. It’s the nearest landmark without mentioning specific addresses.
#6: I seem to recall that some of the back porches are surrounded by fencing and/or arborvidae bushes, but I may be mistaken
#7: Both Martin and Zimmerman were involved in “MMA-style” training. The owner of Zimmerman’s MMA gym testified that when he started training, his skill/conditioning rated about a 0.5 on a 1-10 scale, and in the last couple months before the shooting it’d improved to 1-1.5, and that he wouldn’t be comfortable putting Zimmerman in the ring (wouldn’t want to see him get hurt). IOW, he’s not that good at it. Martin, on the other hand, apparently has spent time in the ring and bragged (via text message) how he made a guy’s nose bleed.
#8: An outside forensic pathologist, Dr. Vincent Di Maio (who quite literally wrote the book on gunshot wounds), testified that Martin likely lived for 10-15 seconds after the shot, long enough to pull his hands back under his body after being proned by Zimmerman.
#9: Pretty much as you said.
#10: Correct, and Dennis Root, use-of-force expert, testified to the same in court.
Also, on the subject of Kokesh, he’s facing drug charges because he was dumb enough to get caught with (IIRC) a Schedule II substance in his home. On the other hand, he’s behaving in a manner consistent with his political views, up to and including acts of civil disobedience. In this (and perhaps, only this), he’s got the conviction of Martin Luther King, Jr. “Doesn’t he know the rules?” Sure he does, just like blacks in the 50s and 60s knew the rules about where to sit on the bus, which drinking fountains to use, and which diners to eat at. Just because them’s the rules doesn’t make it right. I don’t know much about Kokesh, but if nothing else, his commitment to his personal convictions is admirable.
Regarding #4, not only are subdivisions like that confusing, but I’d imagine plenty of people don’t know the street names around their home. I regularly walk around just about every part of my neighborhood and I only know the name of the street I live on. I don’t know the names of the streets my friends live on either.
It comes down to what kind of familiarity we’re talking about. There’s a difference between knowing an area spatially and knowing it as you might by looking at a map. Many people, myself included, only use street addresses (or room numbers) to find a place the first time. After that the place in question isn’t room/building #whatever so much as “My friend’s house” or “the room I go to for X”. I know what the place is, where it is, I could probably devise dozens of routes through the surrounding area to get there, but I couldn’t for the life of me tell you the names/numbers. That information was only relevant to me once, ever. How many things do you remember that you only had to know one time before?
It has occurred to me that most folks who are asking these questions are approaching the situation from the point of view of ‘guilty, unless you can prove to me he was innocent’ instead of the (allegedly) ‘innocent until proven guilty’ standard of our judicial system.
Well, remember the judgement comes FIRST when they look at the parties. They have a man with a gun and a CCW permit shooting a young black teen. They already know who’s the bad guy.
When they find out that Zimmerman is a Neighborhood Watch voulenteer, and works in his Church, and that Martin is into drugs and violence and was a terrible student, they judge even more.
So its not “Guilty until proven Innocent”, but “I’ve decided who’s guilty before I viewed the facts. Now that I’ve seen the facts, how can I spin them to support my bias?”
“There will be blood on their hands for fueling this, and they will want to blame ANYBODY else.”
Which is precisely what they love to dance in. The more blood the better the party. Disgustingly typical.
DWH
1. Why get out of the vehicle?
Used to be that it was racisssst to roll up the windows and lock the doors… now it is racisssst to get out of the car.
Since they are asking questions, maybe they’d be willing to answer some:
1) why didn’t Martin run home after he started running (out of fear)? He had two minutes to go 400ft.
2) why didn’t he call the police? Zimmerman seemed the only one willing to work within the law. They could have had a good laugh when the cops showed up. “you though I was suspicious? I though you were, haha.”
3) why did he have two out of three ingredients for a drug?
4) why did he take 40 minutes to walk one mile?
5) why didn’t his girlfriend call the police after hearing the beginnings of a fight started by a creepy-ass-cracker-rapist?
6) why did the phone go dead right when the fight began? There was no damage from it falling in the grass.
answer to 6: he had Verizon
Ok, I’ll give them 6), but there are still a lot of questions that don’t have good answers for the prosecution. Granted, some are circumstantial, and don’t mean a crime was commited, but the same holds true for Baldr’s questions. The big question is the first one. That’s exculpatory evidence as far as I’m concerned.
No one really knows what George Zimmerman was thinking except George Zimmerman. I have watched almost every minute of the trial so I’ve heard more than most.
1. Because, after George told the dispatcher that “he ran”, the dispatcher asked “which way did he go?” George lost sight of him and left the vehicle to try to answer the dispatcher’s question. During testimony, the dispatcher even admitted that his question may have been misconstrued.
2. Because George did not want a confrontation and the way Martin was “eyeing” him, and circling his car with his hand at his waistband, George didn’t want to risk escalating.
3. He did.
4. He never said he was “unfamiliar with the area”, he said he couldn’t remember the street name. During the entire non-emergency call, he named only one street “Retreat View Circle”. After leaving that street, he simply described where he was “past the clubhouse, turn left, look for mailboxes” etc. I know the streets around my house intimately…I’ve lived here for 20 years…but I only know the names of a few. Why do I need to know the street names? I know where I’m going.
5. George’s keys and flashlight were dropped very near the “T”. George’s Cellphone was in his pocket when the assault occurred and he had it in his hand (and dropped it on the ground) when the police arrived…of course it was near where the body ended up. And it wasn’t “dozens of yards”…not even close to that. IIRC, Martin’s body was about 30 feet from the “T”. The struggle lasted at least 40 seconds after the initial punch, with two people struggling like that, it could have easily moved from near the “T” to where Martin’s body ended up.
6. It was dark and the adrenaline was high. Perceptions are often not accurate under those conditions. Zimmerman’s impression in the darkness may have been that Martin was hiding in bushes when he may have actually just been obscured in shadow. This is an indication of nothing more than that Zimmerman’s perceptions of the incident weren’t perfect.
7. a) George’s trainer ranked his fighting skill at no more than a 1.5 out of ten even after 10 months (IIRC) of training. The trainer stated explicitly that he would not allow George to spar with other fighters for fear of him getting hurt. b) Size can make a difference in a fight among equally skilled fighters, but a superior fighter will, more often than not, defeat an overmatched opponent even in the face of a large size difference. Not to mention that the size difference wasn’t that great. They were within 20 lbs of the same weight and Martin was significantly taller giving a reach advantage which can be very important in a fight, especially against an unskilled opponent. c) There is not a single solitary shred of evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor. Even the State’s “star” witness testified that Martin was the first to engage Zimmerman by asking “what you following me for?”
8. Even if his heart had been completely destroyed by the shot (it wasn’t), Martin would have lived a minimum of 15 seconds from the residual oxygen in his brain. Since his heart wasn’t destroyed and would have still had some pumping capacity even as he bled out, it is likely he lived a minute or more before dying. Plenty of time to pull his hands into his body…a fairly instinctual action to being seriously hurt. The asker of these questions watches way too much Hollywood.
I can’t add anything to the answers already provided for 9 and 10.
There are just as many questions about the actions of Martin that night. For example, from the time that Zimmerman reported “he ran” to the dispatcher, and the fight began, at least 2 minutes and possibly as many as 4 minutes elapsed. During that time, Martin only needed to cover some 400 feet or so to reach the home he was staying in. You can walk 400 feet at a normal pace in less than 2 minutes. A young, athletic kid like Martin should have been able to run it in 20 seconds or so, even in the dark. So, at the time the assault began, why wasn’t Martin already safely inside the house?
There are more, but the most important point is this: All these questions are completely irrelevant. In order to convict Zimmerman, the prosecution is required to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt, the elements of the crime. Questions are not evidence. Supposition is not evidence. “What if’s” are not evidence. Every piece of physical evidence and virtually all of the witness testimony (including that of the state’s “Star” witness” either supports Zimmerman’s account, or is, at minimum, consistent with Zimmerman’s account. Other than Martin’s mother testifying that the voice screaming for help was her son’s (which is countered by Zimmerman’s mother, uncle, father and several friends testifying that the voice was Zimmerman’s) there is not a single piece of physical evidence that contradicts or disproves Zimmerman’s account of the events. Not only is there no proof “beyond a reasonable doubt”…there is no proof AT ALL.
Much is made of the fact that Martin was breaking no laws that night. The fact is neither was Zimmerman. Neither one did a thing illegal right up until the fight started. All evidence points to Martin being the aggressor in that attack so the contention that he did nothing wrong is simply not supported by the evidence. Whoever threw the punch that began the physical altercation most definitely did something illegal that night, and all the evidence points to that aggressor being Martin.
That’s what matters…armchair quarterbacking what either of them did up to that first punch being thrown is irrelevant.
How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go Weer’d.
http://legalinsurrection.com/ is good
https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/ is also good with a lot more
and
http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php has everything…
I gotta say, we’ve got some housing developments here, that even if I knew the street names off the top of my head there’s STILL a distinct possibility of not having a clue where I am. Not only are the houses all the same, the street names are similer, and they’re not gridded, instead they wander around in circles and curlycues and end randomly even though the road stretches out ahead of you with a different name…..And I’m fairly OCD about knowing the name of the street I’m on and the street I turned off of cause I used to work for AAA!