First let’s talk about Open Carry because cool kids are talking about it. I remember a while back reading about a California open carry story about a group of people cleaning a public beach while carrying. Overall it was a good story, but for one little detail. One of the guys had his gun (unloaded per Cali, bullshit law) his magazines (naturally, no point in packing a pistol without ammo) and HANDCUFFS. Seriously? Now I won’t say there will NEVER be an instance where a civilian might need a pair of cuffs. But those instances are SUPER DUPER slim, and overall a private citizen’s reason for carry is simply to keep themselves and others alive until the cops can show up. If cops were always around to protect me maybe I wouldn’t feel the need to own guns for protection. Then again if cops were around to protect me, we’d be living in a Police state, and likely I’d be typing this on my phone from the cattle car…
Now there’s the talk of the people lugging around long-guns in urban situations. Now we all know handguns suck, and long guns are superior implements for self-defense. In one of the early Vicious Circles various people were discussing hypothetical rifle carry. Now if a disaster happened and 911 was a busy signal, and the Police are either preoccupied, or non-existent (or the enemy), I’d probably prefer to have my FAL or my Mossberg 590 on me with a 1911 as a backup. But on my given day where I am leaving home expecting not need a gun, but knowing that nothing in certain, and my life is worth it, I pack a 1911. Why? Well I like it, and I’m good with one. I like .45 ACP and I think its as good as you can hope from a pistol, and its comfortable and easy to carry. That last bit is most important. To carry a rifle around you either need to sling it across your back where you won’t be able to get to it in a hurry, or slung in a more tactical position where you’ll likely need a hand to steady it, and therefore a hand you won’t have free. Sorry, just not worth it, I’m not leaving my home looking for a fight, if it wasn’t a legal nightmare here I might keep a gun in my truck to fall back to, but not slung. Say what you will, but it just isn’t likely enough to be worth the trouble.
OK all that was to get to this discussion. Sebastian has been following the Gerald Ung shooting case. I’ll first up say I have not been following the case outside of Sebastian’s blog, and I’m certainly looking forward to his interview on NRA news, and I will repost the youtube file here.
From what I gather from Sebastian (and I overall trust his judgment when it comes to reporting details) but Mr. Ung had been out drinking and ended up offending somebody enough to get him and his buddies threatening to attack him. Ung Retreated, and only when he was on his back did he draw his pistol and shoot. Also I guess he put 6 .380s into the jerk before he went down. What got me onto this topic was this bit:
This case does, however, show the risk inherent in using deadly force. That is a big reason I am a strong advocate of carrying less than lethal force in addition to lethal force. It gives you more options, and will ultimately make you look far more sympathetic to a prosecutor and jury if you had exhausted all reasonable options available to you before resorting to deadly force.
I think my point can simply be made by this case, if Ung had pulled a can of OC or a stun device he might be dead, because he certainly wouldn’t have had time to pull the .380, and no matter how much you belittle the .380 ACP, 6 of them ALWAYS trumps a less-lethal device in fight-stopping power.
Now back to my point about the handcuffs. In my no-at-all-humble opinion, less lethal items like batons, OC spray, and stun devices are tools for law enforcement, not civilians. Where they come in handy are the not-uncommon situation where some jerk is causing a stir that warrants an arrest, and while they aren’t willing to go peacefully, they also aren’t posing a deadly threat to anybody at the exact moment.
This is when the cops hose them down with OC spray, and cuff them and haul them off.
This is when YOU are walking away, and keeping your eye on the threat until the threat goes away, you get away, or the fight escalates.
We have a little back-and-forth, talking about various scenarios, each getting more specific than the next.
But without mind reading there is no clear answer. Does this guy just want to blacken my eye to please his ego, or is he going to beat my head into the curb? Does he have a knife in his pocket that he’s going to pull if I fight back? Will his buddies pull him back, or join in? Is the guy just posturing, and will OC convince him to kill me?
Without mind reading I can’t say what would be better, OC or a gun. Also without mind reading a jury won’t know either. Sorry, there’s no “Eureka” moment here.
What I will say is I’m not going to crowd my tool box, because when my mind and pulse are racing I don’t want to decide between the pepper spray, and the gun…and be wrong.
Overall I’m going to be walking away. I’m going to talk as much as I can to de-escalate the situation. I’d rather be thought a pussy and a coward than to shoot somebody. If somebody is still interested in attacking me, I have little choice to assume they are not in it for an ego stroke, and I am in danger. If I pull my gun and the fight continues that’s time for deadly force.
We can go back-and-forth, on would-a-should-a, but you start getting into realms where you are now talking about carrying a rifle with you in case you are attacked by MS13 gang-bangers, or ChiCom paratroopers with automatic weapons and body armor.
Most of the time that pepper spray is going to be just something you lug around, just like your gun. But only one of those items are more likely to save your life, and Sebastian illustrates a case where if a man carries pepper spray he might have been killed.
Jury talk is just conjecture, each case has its own merits. I’ve even heard people say that carrying pepperspray might get you in MORE trouble because the prosecution could paint you as bloodthirsty if you reached for your gun first…but I suspect that is as valid as the fabled handloads for self defense discussion.
Overall I’ll say leave the pepper spray to the cops, and carry your gun, because if you can’t walk away from a threat, that is a SERIOUS threat.