So I guess Boston has two big lighted fir trees up. One called an “Official Tree” the other the “Holiday Tree”
Look, I’m not a Christian, and I don’t go to Church, and I honestly belive the “Jesus” as he’s talked about in the Christian bible is actually a conglomeration of acts done by real people, fantastic tales of mythology, and clever manipulations to help convert paeans.
The wife feels similarly. And guess what? This weekend we’ll be buying and decorating a CHRISTMAS Tree. Not because we’re religious, but because we want to, and enjoy it. Also what’s the big fucking deal? Hell look at this post when my wife was having her brain operated on. Lots of people offered prayers and blessings. While home for Thanksgiving the Mrs.’s cousin told her he had converted to some new-age flavor of Buddhism, and that he was chanting for her that day.
Guess what, we were deeply moved by these gestures.
What the fuck is wrong with the people who feel that saying the word “Christmas” is somehow poison? #1. Lots of Non-Christians celebrate it. (I personally know a TON of Jews who put up a tree for the same reason why the wife and I do) #2. Just about every business and government agency, will recognize it. and #3. What other “Holiday” involves erecting a fir tree covered with lights around the Winter Solstice?
I mean you want to erect a “Holiday” cross? How about celebrating the “Spring Holiday” with a “Holiday Cross” with a “Holiday Martyr” on it?
Is anybody dumb enough to think that if you call it something different it’ll actually change what it is? (See Also “Assault Weapon” and “Ground Zero Mosque” et al)
Look whoever you are, and whatever you believe, have a happy season. If in this season you feel like not celebrating Christmas, or celebrating the several other winter holidays, feel free and enjoy it. If you decide to erect a Christmas Tree, call it whatever you want, but don’t expect anybody dumb enough to be fooled by it!
Now I even think that this holiday generic bullshit is rediculious. It doesn’t offend me, I just think it’s nice. I also think it’s nice when people wish me a Merry Christmas or whatever holiday. To go further, I even appreciate it when people mention that I am in their prayers or say something along the line of, “God bless you.” as a niceity rather than if I sneezed.
With that said, I am not Christian of any means, I don’t even follow or are particularly moved by Jesus/the Bible or the docterine itself.
Maybe I’m just more tolerant until they come to try and convert me?
People need to calm down and try to enjoy the bare bones of what celebrations are- a time to share joy and happyness.
I’d like to set up a theater viewing of the first South Park Christmas episode. If I may quote?
MC: And now, South Park Elementary presents the happy, non-offensive, non-denominational Christmas Play, with music and lyrics by New York minimalist composer, Philip Glass!
[Philip Glass moves into position and start playing his keyboards. The curtains draw back, and the kids look out at the audience. They begin to move around]
Voice-over: As I turn and look into the sun, the rays burn my eyes [a track saying “Happy Happy Happy, Everybody Happy” is added, along with an arpeggio. Members of the audience look confused] How like a turtle the sun looks.
Sheila Broflovski: What the hell is this??? [The kids just keep moving and turning] This is horrible!!!
Priest: This is the most God-awful piece of crap I’ve ever seen!!
Mr. Garrison: You’re the ones who made it this way!
Priest: Yeah, it’s because the Jews said it couldn’t be Christian. [without a nativity scene, how could it be Christian?]
Mr. Broflovski: It wasn’t our idea to take out Santa Claus! [that was the priest’s idea.]
Elderly Tree Hugger: All you bastards ruined Christmas!
(+1 on the Elderly Tree Hugger part, of course!)
When I lived in Vancouver, BC, I met a lot of Chinese people who had their Christmas tree up year round. And none of them were Christians.
Don’t forget, the major religions in the United States are propagated solely through a system of cultural pressure and approval. It’s an institutionalized version of confirmation bias.
This would be fine, as that’s how most religions work, except that once they carry the majority, they do retarded shit like pass blue laws and think it’s okay to break the Golden Rule as long as the people they’re interacting with when they break it are gay.
So, the way to keep them from setting up their own little system of Sharia, you have to disarm them at the outset. Treat them the same way they treat gays: “keep that disgusting crap in the privacy of your bedroom; it has no place in public.” So, deny them the mindless repetition with which they keep themselves brainwashed. When they make reference to God in popular culture, say, “but god is imaginary.” When they make reference to prayer in popular culture, say, “but prayer is just superstition.” Keep it up until they suddenly become big fans of tolerance and welcoming all beliefs.
And, um, if they cut out the blue laws and homophobia, that would be nice too.
If they quit molesting little boys and covering it up with their tax-free institutions, that would be even better.
All that said, I celebrate Christmas too, but I use the terms that predate the corruption of the holiday. It was always a sun celebration, like “Saturnalia,” and will always be an ill-timed Winter Solstice holiday. Trees, lights, candles, booze, presents, songs… these were all part of celebrating the Solstice long before there was a “Christmas.” So, celebrate with loved ones! Drink well! Eat well! Be rich!
Just don’t help them support their blue laws, homophobia, and child molestation.
Woa, you know they aren’t the only ones molesting kids…
There are plenty of others out there who are non Christians too, but for some reason when one priest is accused it’s on the front page; yet, another spiritual non-christian leader who does it gets buried in the back pages of the news. It’s also funny how when an accusation is admitted to be false the news buries it too.
There were a lot of bad ones out there; however, there are always powerful scumbags around regardless of their beliefs who use their influence to cover it up or somehow flee their punishment.
I’m not into blue laws, homophobia, even some aspects of conventional marriage, or diddling kids- but it isn’t all the Jesus followers pushing this agenda either. Sadly enough there are plenty of athiest or agnostic people with those views too.
Speaking as a currently-non-denominational, married-Methodist, confirmed-Anglican-Catholic, and baptized-Episcopalian Christian, I would sincerely appreciate it if you would bother employing a slightly less-broad brush when describing religions as a whole, and Christianity in specific.
Sure thing! The moment blue laws are repealed and gays can marry, I’ll be happy to honor this request!
So you are going to be a stereotyping asshole for the sake of being a stereotyping asshole. Thank you for making that clear as soon as possible – now I know not to waste any further effort on you.
I didn’t think what I had written was that confusing, but I seem to be having difficulties conveying my message.
I am not a stereotyping asshole for the sake of being a stereotyping asshole; I am a stereotyping asshole *for the purpose of having blue laws repealed and allowing gays to marry.*
Thought I wrote that once already. Maybe the problem is on the receiving end?
Whoops. Apparently I forgot the age-old caution against attributing to malice what can better be explained by stupidity. Sorry ’bout that.
You are not being a stereotyping asshole for the sake of being a stereotyping asshole, you are being a stereotyping asshole because you are an idiot – only an idiot would come up with a strategy of “1. Be a stereotyping asshole, and thereby attack all religious folks, denominations, and creeds, even those who do not support blue laws, and have no problems with gays creating whatever contracts they like. 2. ?????? 3. Repeal blue laws and let gays marry!”
Again, my apologies – you may now return to your normally-scheduled idiocy.
I understand. I skipped quite a few steps in explaining how blue laws, homophobia, and kiddie-diddling come to be excusable through faith because I assumed an audience that was familiar with the current state of discussing faith on the internet. I oversimplified in my first comment by writing simply, “cultural pressure and approval… an institutionalized version of confirmation bias.”
Seeing as there is now someone to whom the entire standard body of knowledge on falsification, empiricism, and the scientific method is complete news in the audience, I’ll have to back waayyyy up and explain it all.
No. There is too much. Let me sum up.
First, read “The Ethics of Belief” by William K. Clifford. http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/w_k_clifford/ethics_of_belief.html
Then, imagine how Christian parents explain Hindu creation mythology to their kids, and why they don’t subscribe.
Then, imagine how Hindu parents explain Muslim prophet-ascension mythology to their kids, and why they don’t subscribe.
Then, imagine how Muslim parents explain Christian zombie-cannibalism symbology to their kids, and why they don’t subscribe.
Bottom line: if a belief is held *only* through faith–that is, if there isn’t a reason to believe something other than cultural pressure and confirmation bias *alone*–then such a belief is indicative that ANY crazy idea can be held to be truthful, without a useful way to distinguish between them!
So I don’t blame you directly for advocating for blue laws, homophobia, child molestation, sharia, female circumcision, the spread of AIDS in Africa, or “Gott Mit Uns” belt buckles… but I DO hold you responsible for the institutionalized failure to practice rational empiricism through which blue laws, homophobia, child molestation, sharia, female circumcision, the spread of AIDS in Africa, and “Gott Mit Uns” belt buckles are normalized and advocated. It doesn’t matter what kind of nonsense you believe; if you gather a large number of people together to implement proven brainwashing techniques and feed your confirmation bias, the weak-minded will mistake that for evidence or as a basis of truth.
This is exactly the same mechanisms by which hoplophobes, “light rail” proponents, Keynesian economists, global warming deniers, and vaccination foes grow their causes. We’ve seen it in well-recorded historical practice in the growth of Mormon and Scientology churches from fringe cults to the mainstream. We understand the psychological biases that arise from within group dynamics.
And if you aren’t doing anything to correct those biases in yourself, and to avoid spreading them to others, you’re part of the problem.
It’s not that you’re malicious.
It’s just that you’re far too eager to return to your normally-scheduled idiocy.
Yeah… that matters about as much to me, and is about as accurate, rational, and reasonable, as MikeB claiming to blame all firearm owners for any and all firearm-related crimes.
Thanks for proving me right, though – you really were not worth the effort, between your stereotyping, your blind hatred, and your continued insistence that things MUST be a certain way because you BELIEVE them to be. Funny, that – mind the abyss, it has eyes.
And can I just say that I hate “Merry Xmas”? Yes, “X” has been used (individually and with other letters) as the shorthand version of “Christ” for damned near ever, but like so many other words around us now, “Xmas” has been largely misappropriated by self-serving individuals who are less interested in the meaning of the word, and more in the substance (as another example, consider “liberal”). If you want to celebrate Christmas, kindly spend the four additional keystrokes and call it by its proper name. If you want to celebrate any of the other possibly-hundreds of holidays that have swarmed around the week bracketing that date (Brumalia, Hanukkah, La an Dreolin, Mummer’s Day, Yule, or whatever the hell else), then knock yourself out, and be merry for it, but man up and call them what they are.
Woops! Looks like you forgot step 1… reading the Clifford essay! He addresses the responsibility for institutionalized credulousness quite directly.
Pretty inconvenient for Christians, though, so I am used to seeing Christians make a very pointed effort to ignore Clifford. It’s almost like they’re… blissful in their willful ignorance.
OK, let’s knock it off. Points were made, differences were voiced. If you guys want to keep at it go find a pro/anti-Christian blog to do it on.
I’m not Christian, and I will not raise my family Christian, that being said outside of the standard-issue corruption that happens with ANY massive organization, be it the Catholic Church, State Government, or the UN, I find it pretty hard to get too bent out of shape by Christians.
Especially when its Liberal Atheist Pinko scumbags who are pushing blue laws and fighting against gays marrying. I’m starting to get the feeling that a lot of these authoritarians Jesus is just an excuse for them to tell others what to do.
Got it in one. By and large, with a few exceptions, the problem has never been “religion” – the problem has been how people use that religion. If people want to believe whatever the hell they want to believe in, and leave it at that, then we are golden. If, however, those same people want to use those beliefs to force others to share those beliefs, or at least share in the outward expression of those beliefs, then we have a problem, and a large one at that. “Religious” does not mean “authoritarian” any more than “Republican” means “conservative” – both pairs can coexist in the same person, but their elements are each independent.
Of course, the sad irony in all of this is that the Biblical Jesus could easily be described as a classical libertarian – what else could, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” be interpreted as, politically? 🙂