The Queen Of Denial

To be anti-gun you MUST be isolated from reality. I couldn’t help but laugh at Joan’s latest post:

So 103,000 Minnesotans, 1 in 40, carries a gun. That is about 2% of the population of Minnesota, assuming the writer of this article excluded those under 21 who can’t get a permit to carry, in which case, as I have figured out before, about 3%. Reading the article could lead you to believe that the number of legal gun carriers is large. It is not. It is small

Small huh? Well from the article she’s citing:

Cannon, 59, a gray-haired production artist, is one of 103,000 state residents with a permit to carry a handgun — more than 10 times the number there were a decade ago. They, in turn, are part of a growing “carry’ culture across the country: a record 8 million people who have taken on the means to use deadly force if they decide it’s necessary.

Sorry Joan, its not the number that’s important its the trend. Part of the gun culture is the normalcy of it all. The “Assault Weapon Ban” passed because most gun owners didn’t know anybody with a gun described in ban, so they didn’t feel too threatened by it. The more people in a circle of friends who carries, the more likely the people who don’t carry might consider it, the change is exponential in this case, and over the last 10 or so years the numbers have reflected that.

Also Joan belittles the numbers, by attempting to claim that most of those 100,000 permit holders don’t actually CARRY their guns. First she’s just speculating, but I suspect she’s wrong on this. First, Joan’s wrong about EVERYTHING, but also “Gun Culture 2.0” is self-defense minded, not hunting and target shooting, and that means that while in the 90s most of the people who had carry permits in the states that allowed it (many didn’t back then) only carried occasionally. Today, I suspect there are more people like me who carry whenever they step out the door.

Oh but the denial gets worse:

The problem with Rothman’s statement is that those of us opposed to the law were told that these would be law abiding folks. There would be no trouble. So while there have not been an increase in murders or crime as a result, there is a difference between someone who isn’t carrying a gun getting a DWI and someone who is. Since guns are dangerous weapons designed to kill another human being, if you are carrying while drunk, there is a greater chance for harming another individual with a gun in your hand. Rothman and the reporter left out some other statistics that show a slightly different picture of those “law abiding” gun carriers. Protect Minnesota has recounted just some of them. The Violence Policy Center has been keeping track of the number of “law abiding” permit holders who have killed another human being since 2007. The number is 467. To some that might seem like a small number. To the families of the victims, it is one too many. In addition to the killings, however, there are numerous accidental shootings that sometimes kill, sometimes not, with guns belonging to law abiding folks and some of the permit holders. You can check them out at the Ohh Shoot blog. You can also check out how many times kids find guns in cars or at home where their parents ( many permit holders) leave them around loaded. You can check those out at the Kid Shootings blog.

So 100,000 is small, and 467 is big? Pull the other one, Joan! Of course the Concealed Carry Killers “Study” is 100% bullshit, many of those numbers are people who don’t have permits, or people who haven’t been convicted of committing a crime….also the 100,000 is just HER STATE, and VPC’s padded numbers is NATION WIDE! Also those other Joyce-Funded blogs she cites also don’t filter for legal activities. They’ve cited muggers getting shot as “Children Killed by guns”, as well as people committing crimes when they shot a minor.

Still I must give it to Joan, she’s been struggling to string together a coherent thought for months. I’m glad she kept her addled head clear enough to write this string of stupidity, it made for a fun blog post to write for me!

Is there any wonder why the anti-rights cult is losing so much ground?

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0 Responses to The Queen Of Denial

  1. Bob S. says:

    Let’s put that 103,000 number in perspective.
    According to Wikipedia (fast and easy source); the number of people with a carry permit — not a handgun, not a rifle, not a shotgun — just people in 1 state is more then the active military of 124 countries.

    Only 45 countries have active military numbers that are higher.

    The Violence Policy Center has been keeping track of the number of “law abiding” permit holders who have killed another human being since 2007. The number is 467.

    And yet how do the laws she recommends stop the other 14,000+ Murders that happen? Or the 84,00+ rapes or the 778,000+ Aggravated Assaults?

    We know the answer even she choices not to admit it — gun control laws do nothing to stop any of those things.

    So we have a large portion of a state armed, a smaller portion carrying often if not everyday — and the crimes committed by these people are mere fractions of the total crime — Guess she expects perfections out of everyone but the actual criminals.

    That is what I’ve come to realize is the antis goal, they want to try to make perfect humans through legislation. If they can pass enough laws, enact enough rules, restrict enough freedoms….then finally will their ideal be reached — a person who can not commit a crime. How deluded is that!

    • AuricTech says:

      That is what I’ve come to realize is the antis goal, they want to try to make perfect humans through legislation. If they can pass enough laws, enact enough rules, restrict enough freedoms….then finally will their ideal be reached — a person who can not commit a crime. How deluded is that!

      How deluded? This deluded.

      There’s just one response to those who hold the belief that they can make people better:

      I aim to misbehave.”

  2. Archer says:

    “So 100,000 is small, and 467 is big?”
    Let’s keep it in perspective. Numbers have to be compared in the same contexts to be statistically relevant. 467 is a nation-wide number, so it must be compared to another nation-wide number. Like, say, 8,000,000.

    If I recall correctly, the break-down (beat-down?) of the VPC numbers, after ruling out double-counts, people without carry permits, suicides, justified shootings, felons in possession, etc., was closer to 300, possibly lower. And that’s over five years, compared to the number of issued permits, which was a single year.

    Context again: around 60 killings, versus 8,000,000 permit holders.

    Sorry, Joan. The numbers, as they say, don’t add up.

    • Archer says:

      Forgot to say: 60 killings versus 8,000,000 permit holders?

      I’ll continue to hang with the gunnie crowd, thank you very much. Less likely to get shot, that way. 🙂

      • Weerd Beard says:

        Yep, I tell anybody who has questions on lawfully carried guns I ask them this:

        “Who would you rather be locked in a closet with for two hours: Me with a machine gun, or some random dude from the county prison serving time for a violent felony with a rusty screwdriver?”

        The answer is pretty obvious. When we have blog get-togethers there’s sometimes two dozen or more people, all with at least one gun on them in close quarters, and good times are had.

        Its almost like they’re full of shit!

        • McThag says:

          Being locked in a closet with you and a machine gun would be torture.

          We’d BOTH be whining, “if I wasn’t locked in this closet we could go SHOOTING!”

          Then, after the door was open, would be afraid to be the first one out of the closet.

    • Pyrotek85 says:

      60 out of 8 million is like a rounding error lol

  3. maddmedic says:

    I would be one of those 103,000 and when I read about in the the Strib I was ready for the usual anti gun ranting of that leftist rag and was surprised by it tone. Powerline also commented on it.
    Joan is a squeeing, peeing herself leftist of which we probably have as many of as you do in Mass.
    Funny thing is you do NOT hear much about her in Minnesota…
    But then when Deer season rolls around in November we put one helluva large army into the field.
    Pretty quiet from the media and the leftists at that time..

    • Weerd Beard says:

      The only reason why I know anything about her is I go looking for goons like her. She’d be invisible to all but her anti-rights circle of friends if it wasn’t for bloggers exposing her.

      Some say we shouldn’t feed them traffic….I personally don’t see how our traffic helps her, and I personally feel sunlight is the best disinfectant.

      Why would anybody know her name? Look at this interview. She’s small, she’s meek and she’s crazy!

    • RuffRidr says:

      “Funny thing is you do NOT hear much about her in Minnesota…”

      I get the feeling that she’s not very effective at what she does. Other than her “woe is me” story that she’ll trot out whenever it is convenient, she doesn’t have much. She can barely string a coherent argument together. She uses heavy moderation on her blog because she does not have the debating skills to refute our points. To me, and I assume most others, she comes across as some batshit crazy old lady screeching on to anyone that will listen.

  4. Rob Crawford says:

    The number is 467. To some that might seem like a small number. To the families of the victims, it is one too many.

    So 466 would be OK?!

    She’s not the most coherent author or thinker, is she?

  5. Sebastian says:

    If you want a fantastic example of the kind of lack of intellectual rigor that is dooming their movement, I give you this statement by Japete:

    As to the slanted VPC report, you provided me with a link to a paper written by Clayton Cramer, a well know gun right activist and author in support of gun rights. And he is not slanted? Come on Bryan, you can do better than that.

    Hell, even I could make some arguments on their side of the issue in regards to some of the material in Clayton’s paper. But instead they just dismiss it, because he’s “a well know gun right activists.” Nothing we can say has any credibility, because we don’t agree with them, so they don’t need to come up with credible counter arguments.

    I really laugh at this, because at the same time they have to be scratching their heads, wondering why no one listens to them anymore.

    • Weerd Beard says:

      What’s the best is that Joan will ONLY cite papers, studies, and polls conducted by Joyce and Brady sources (two groups she happens to work for), but will dismiss anything out of hand if she even SUSPECTS it might be pro-gun.

      having standards is great, obviously having double-standards is twice as nice!

    • I’ve posted some fairly detailed statistical breakdowns from the State of Minnesota data that refutes her points and she dismisses them entirely. I find it entertaining.

      Thanks for quoting above from her response to me this morning – that made my day 😛

  6. AZRon says:

    “Part of the gun culture is the normalcy of it all.”

    This is the only reason that I force myself to open carry every once in a while. Back in the ’70’s it was very common and wouldn’t rate a second look, even by LEO.

    Now, I get sidelong glances from the ignorant imports that move here from all places Blue. Still, I’m happy to say, no problem with LEO.

    • Weerd Beard says:

      Yep. My Father who has lived all his life in Maine (and is an anti-gun “Progressive”) was amazed that Oklahoma made it legal to open carry with a permit.

      When I informed him that he NEVER needed a permit to open Carry in Maine, he acted shocked because he’d never seen somebody open carrying. Of course he’s lived the majority of his life in the Portland area where the cops have been known to arrest and confiscate firearms despite the legality of the act….

      Such histories are why I’m personally a bit adverse to open carry myself…Mass is worse. It’s legal to OC with a permit….only most people who even ACCIDENTALLY expose their gun while legally carrying find their permit revoked for “Bad Judgement”, makes OC essentially illegal here.

  7. Linoge says:

    In addition to her various other lies, so far as I know, no one has ever claimed that there would “be no trouble” with concealed carry or concealed carriers – people are humans, prone to error, and someone is always going to be an idiot out of every sample pool (even with a sample size of 1). However, history has proven, and current events continue to prove, that, on average, concealed carriers are generally more-law-abiding than their “normal” fellow citizens, and considerably more law-abiding than the members of your average anti-rights organization.

    Likewise, she employs the tried-and-failed “designed to kill” canard, when intent is non-transferable and it is entirely the actions and motivations of the user that provide any given object its purpose.

    And, finally, she ignores the evidence that there is actually a negative correlation between firearm ownership rates and firearm-related fatality rates, though she obfuscates the situation by aiming for the easier target of general-purpose “harm” – perhaps I should do an updated chart for that theory as well.

    After a fashion, I feel rather sorry for Joan; once upon a time, she and people like her would have ruled the roost, if only for the journalistic truism that “if it bleeds it leads” and Joan has more than covered herself in her sister’s blood. But, these days, with “authorized journalists” being forced to take the back seats when compared to us schmucks sitting around in our basements wearing our PJs… well, you can’t stop the signal, and the signal goes everywhere, Joan.

    I hope you brought along some pillows – that dustbin of history is mighty cold and hard.

    • Weerd Beard says:

      The whole “Gun Owners are Perfect Angels” is a strawman they need to erect.

      The true argument is that “Lawful gun owners are a self-selecting crowd that is bound by both grave consequences and strict legal scrutiny, ergo they tend to be more responsible and more law-abiding than the average citizen”, if they repeated THAT statement they wouldn’t be able to disprove it, as its factually true, and been so for a generation of liberal concealed carry laws.

      And of course the core of my conversion to gun-nuttery is “Guns are simple tools, and with some basic training and strict adherence to Jeff Cooper’s 4 rules they are VERY safe, and are better to have around than not”, is something that is so infallibly true, that if they even admitted that such a philosophy existed they would essentially be admitting defeat and would be forced from the battlefield in shame.

    • I didn’t live in Minnesota when our current carry law was passed in 2003 – but the folks that were heavily involved in getting it passed are quite sure they never said anything like that.

      But there does exist good video of some state legislators and our local activist friends talking about “blood in the streets”….


  8. She’s now complaining about the “slanted” coverage:

    “It should be noted that the article in the Star Tribune is very one sided as it is based on a news release from Gun Owners of America and then the reporter got one token quote from Protect Minnesota. When reporters write articles, they should be balanced with more information from each side. Such was not the case in this article. Until that happens, the public is not served with adequate and accurate information.”

    And she has a long response up from VPC about Clayton Cramer’s Paper…

  9. Even with fairly small numbers, gun owners can have a large effect. At 2% of the population, a thug randomly selecting targets would have a 50% chance of running into a carry permit holder in their first 35 victims.

  10. Tom says:

    The best line is from her sister hoplophobe Heather Martens in the Star Tribune article. “They promised that if lots of people had guns everybody would be safe.” No we didn’t. I support gun rights because they help keep me safe.

    • Bob S. says:

      “They promised that if lots of people had guns everybody would be safe.”

      Well we are doing our part but others are slacking off. As soon as the 90 something percent start carrying guns, we might just be safe. Look at the drop in crime numbers with just a couple thousand of us carrying 🙂

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