Cartridges, What’s in a Name?

A Girl and Her Gun was talking about shooting an XD 9, and while we were discussing it in the comments she mentioned this.

I also looked up 9x19mm just to see if that was different from what I have been referring to as 9mm. While reading about it I came across the term Parabellum which is derived from the Latin: Si vis pacem, para bellum, which means “If You Seek Peace, Prepare For War”. I am sure everyone here knows that, but I had never heard of it and I love it. Might become my new motto. Well, I guess it has been my motto, but this says it so nicely.

Heh, that’s one of the pains-in-the-ass with talking guns to newer shooters, some of the more common cartridges have LOTS of names. I know I’ve talked about it before, but I like this subject so allow me to prattle.

Say the 9mm cartridge introduced by Luger at the turn of the last century, damn pill has a HUGE number of names. 9×19, 9 mm Luger, 9 mm NATO, 9 mm Parabellum, 9 mm Para, and just 9mm.

All of those are acceptable names for the same cartridge. They are 100% interchangeable, as the NATO load is a bit more powerful than the traditional loading, but overall they can be considered interchangeable.

How do these names come about? Well as a general rule the formula is Width of the bullet, either in millimeters, or in inches (note that Inch designations there is a decimal point, and this number is often refereed to as “Caliber”), then followed by a name chosen by the originator…or in the case of older cartridges, adopters.

It appears that the origonal name for this round is 9mm Parabellum (As the lady notes Latin for “Prepare For War”) but it was invented by the people at Luger, so its often called that. It was later adopted by NATO forces as their chosen pistol cartridge, hence the NATO name. Now what about the 9×19 one? We call that European Designation, and some may have noticed that I find it rather elegant in its consistency and information conveyed. That is the measurement of the bullet (only in millimeters) followed by the length of the cartridge casing from the Head (which is the bizarre name for the flat part on what I consider the bottom of the cartridge where the primer lives) to the case mouth, also in millimeters.

This is useful because it can convey a ton of information if you don’t know the cartridge. Like let’s talk about 9mm Largo (If you aren’t familiar with it don’t click the link just yet). Now the name doesn’t tell us much, just that it, like the Luger Round fires a 9mm bullet. Still if I told you 9mm Largo is also known as 9x23mm suddenly you know its a longer round, and by virtue can guess that its more powerful. Those are both true…tho not always. The old black powder revolver cartridge .38 S&W (Not to be confused with the modern .38 S&W Special AKA .38 Special) is 9x32R (“R” designating that the cartridge has a rimmed base), but that extra case length was developed for Black powder, not smokeless, so smokeless loadings of the same pressure are VERY light.

While every cartridge can be converted into a European designation, you won’t read many “9x32R” when talking about older S&W revolvers, nor will you ever see 11.43x23mm when talking about one of my favorite pistol cartridges.

Now let’s get into some errata. The numbers are not concrete scientific numbers. Like let’s talk about 9mm bullets. If say we were to take some common 9mm calibers. 9mm Luger, .380 Auto, .357 SIG, and 9mm Makarov. (9×19, 9×17, 9×22, and 9×18 respectivly) the first 3 all use 0.352″ bullets at various weights, and pushed at various speeds….but the Russian Makarov uses a 0.362″ bullet.

Also people new to revolver shooting will quickly realize that a .357 Magnum revolver can camber a fire .38 Special cartridges….but .38 and .357? Well in fact both bullets are 0.357″ (which is also “9mm”) but the .38 Special has some old history that is better explained here.

Oh and just because a bullet is called X does it mean ANYTHING, there are no rules as to what you call a new cartridge. Like .460 S&W Magnum, its based on the .45 Colt cartridge, and can chamber and fire .454 Casull cartridges….both use 0.454″ Bullets but S&W called it “.460” probably because “.454 Magnum” or some such would sound too similar to .454 Casull. And probably why .454 Casull didn’t just call itself “.45 Magnum”, or “.45 Casull”, one is allowed a certain amount of flare.

Also some names are associated with specific loads or pressures, the most famous are the NATO loads. Seems when NATO adopted various cartridges they decided to be different when it came to cartridge pressures…and decided to not be consistent on how they changed it. 9×19 NATO and 5.56x45mm NATO are both slightly more powerful than commercial 9mm Luger and .223 Remington…but 7.62x51NATO is LESS powerful than .308 Winchester….tho all of those cartridges are the same in overall dimensions.

This is why I’m so amused by this subject, as there is SO much to talk about, and there is so much history, marketing, and “Why not?” thrown in there.

And guns are fun!

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Hope They Win

This is a lawsuit that will shake the administration.

PHOENIX, Ariz. — Family members of murdered Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry marked the first anniversary of his death Thursday by calling for criminal prosecution of federal authorities responsible for allowing hundreds of firearms to get into the hands of trafficking organizations.

Terry, a member of the Border Patrol’s elite tactical squad, was killed last Dec. 15 in a remote canyon near Nogales during a shootout with border bandits.

Two AK-47 rifles found at the murder scene were traced back to Operation Fast and Furious, a controversial gun-trafficking case in which hundreds of weapons were allowed to “walk” into the hands of criminals and across the border.

The whole point was to give semi-automatic rifles to known criminals so they would create “Gun Death” with them. Criminals like to kill other criminals, but they also kill the good guys. The BATFE has blood on their hands and should face the music.

This story comes to you via BLNN, the Bubblehead Les News Network.

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Want One of These Too!

I was at the shop looking at the S&W 317. I wanted a trainer for my J-Frame .38s that was cheaper, and had less punishing recoil. Also the idea of a little pocket .22 in case I’m in the woods looking to shoot something smaller than a breadbox. Well it turns out, for reasons unknown to me S&W decided to make the 317 with both an aluminum frame, and a titanium cylinder. While this makes the gun scary-light, is also makes the price equally scary. I ended up leaving the shop with a Beretta 21A that served similar purposes, and indulged others.

Still seeing this really excites me. I dig on the Ruger LCR (Jay Does Too!), they trudged into uncharted grounds with the polymer frame and unique design of what is essentially 19th Century technology, and what they came out with was a VERY practical lightweight revolver with a fantastic out-of-the-box trigger (My J-Frames have triggers just as good…but that’s after 1,000+ pulls done by myself), and what comes in at a very competitive price-point.

Surely this item will weigh a bit more than the 317, but It will be at a price I’m willing to pay. Also I suspect Ruger will do all they can to make this gun Mass legal, and I’ll do my best to buy one.

oh video too!

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I WANT ONE!!!

Awwww!

Found here via here

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Lost and Stolen: Only One’s

Barron sends me this story, because he obviously doesn’t like what I look like when I smile

Police Chief James M. Neiswanger said Wednesday he has suspended Sgt. John P. Hart five days without pay and ordered him to repay the city $2,000 for losing a department-issued sniper rifle.

Hart, a 17-year veteran, also has been removed as department firearms inspector, Neiswanger said.

wahhh??

The Remington 700 rifle went missing on Sept. 28 about 11 p.m. Hart had placed it in the back of his pickup truck and was en route to an extra-duty job. At Northampton and South streets, a driver at the intersection told Hart the tailgate on his truck was down and that’s when Hart saw the rifle was missing, Neiswanger said.

So according to his story (which is certainly questionable) he put a $2,000 Rem 700 in the back of his pickup truck and failed to close the tailgate…or failed to notice when the tailgate came unlatched, and the rifle had somehow fallen out, and been collected so fast that the alerted officers never found it? (BTW you want to talk the utilities of gun registries, this clusterfuck is the poster child. Not only is the gun likely all papered out in the Department FFL’s records, as well as issue documents to the officer, but the State Police may have skin in the registry,as like Canada, Massachusetts registers long-guns)

So even if we take his dubious story at his word, that’s some HARDCORE negligence. And what does he get? Sent to bed without supper, and he’s no longer the department firearms inspector!

Had this happened to, in the words of Mr. Pink, a “Real Person”, we’d have our permit revoked, and lose all of our guns we possessed in Massachusetts, and we’d be lucky NOT to be charged with a crime that might make it impossible to own guns even if they MOVED to free-America.

Instead this guy will still strap on a badge and a gun and go about “Protecting and Serving”. Good for him! The irony meter would be pegged if he got on the detail where he confiscated somebody’s firearms because they said something naughty on the internet.

Shameful.

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More Reasons to Pass HR822

And a decent reason why its opposition are bad people.

Tea Party Patriots co-founder Mark Meckler was taken into custody Thursday morning after he tried to check in for a Delta flight to Detroit with a locked gun box containing a Glock pistol and 19 cartridges of ammunition, Queens prosecutors said.

Meckler, 49, declared the weapon, as required, authorities said. He’s licensed to carry the gun in Grass Valley, Calif., where he lives, but that license isn’t valid in New York, which has strict rules on carrying concealed weapons, they said….The charge could carry prison time, but travelers who are arrested in such cases and appear to be trying to comply with the law typically pay fines.

Look this story is an example of what a fucking mess our national gun laws are, and how unconcerned with public safety the people who create these laws are. Really they’re just concerned with making life miserable for lawful gun owners. They do this because they hate them and hope their laws will repulse them to someplace else. (BTW it works)

So first up we have a guy who’s licensed to carry in California. So forget that bullshit of “Race to the Bottom”, California is the TOP when it comes to issuing carry permits, and most of the lawful residents of that state simply can’t acquire such a permit. He was likely as well trained in firearms as the officers who arrested him. The fact that it is completely impossible for this man to get a pistol permit in NYC shows a problem with New York, not with Mr. Meckler.

Further it wasn’t like he was still wearing his carry gun, locked-and-loaded as he strolled through the security area (Again I think airport security accomplishes nothing, and if they let me and everybody else who can lawfully carry a gun onto the plane as if I were stepping into my car, or a train, or a public bus, there would be no new danger introduced) instead the gun was unloaded, locked in a tamper-proof hard-sided container, and declared in his checked bags.

Essentially the one mistake he made was he flew out of New York City….and besides the fact that the United States has allowed that shithole to become a place where rule of law, and civil rights don’t apply, can you explain to me why picking this airport (or Logan International which is under equally stupid laws, or O’Hare in Chicago) Vs. Manchester Airport in New Hampshire, or Ronald Reagan in Virgina, was a “Mistake”?

The opponents say that HR 822 will make Conceal Carry laws a “Race to the Bottom”…I ask, is this proverbial “Top” any place we want our nation to be?

This post brought to you in part by BLNN, the Bubblehead Les News Network.

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“Gun Death” Multiple Family

Wow this is a BRUTAL case.

A New Hampshire man was sentenced to 15 to 30 years in prison Friday for beating his wife to death with a flashlight after he came home to find she had strangled their 4-year-old son with a ribbon and tried to kill their 7-year-old daughter.

Quick reading I was surprised he was sentenced for that long, but I read further.

“When I walked into the room, as soon as I saw my son, I knew something was very wrong,” Smeltzer told the court before he was sentenced, his voice breaking at times. “I knew he was dead. And I lost all control. Enraged, I struck my wife. I did something that was not going to bring my son back.”

Smeltzer was charged with second-degree murder in the November 2010 killing at their Auburn home. Prosecutors later downgraded that to manslaughter, saying he was provoked by the sight of the still bodies of their son, Mason, and daughter, Mercey.

He didn’t actually catch her in the act, but killed her in retaliation.

Those who use the metric of “Gun Death” frequently talk about justifiable homicide laws as “Shoot first, ask questions later” or “License to Murder”. Nope, even if he had used a gun he would still be facing the same charges, even in Gun-Friendly New Hampshire.

And let’s look at the weapons, ribbons, and a flashlight. How many of us have those items around our homes? How many of us have dead bodies in our homes?

Its the people, not the tool.

As for the People, I will say I sympathize with the Father, I don’t know if I could have acted differently in the same circumstances.

h/t Wallphone

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Talking Points of the Antis

I never hesitate to point out that in the debate for gun control the other side is plain-and-simple wrong. I know this, and the antis at least on a subconscious level must know it too, because their talking points are CONSTANTLY changing.

As cliche as they are, our saying like “If we outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns”, and “If guns cause crime, forks make people fat”, and “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people”, (Any doubt on that last one, you need to read the “Gun Death?” Files) are just as valid as the days when people first started bringing them up in discussions, and distributing them in publications, T-shirts, and bumper stickers.

Still the antis seem to pick up a talking point and carrying it around until every pro-gun person who they encounter knows why their statement is untrue, then they abandon it and move on to the next lie. Stuff like “A gun in the home is more likely to kill a family member than a stranger”, or “If we allow conceal carry we’ll have wild west shootouts over parking spaces and traffic accidents”, “Semi-automatic isn’t one shot per trigger pull, its a finger twitch”, “Assault weapons are readily convertible to full-auto military arms”, and “‘Assault Weapons’ are weapons of war.” among others.

The latest one circulating is a response to the valid point that most current gun control laws are meaningless or are completely redundant. The recent example can be found here. It’s a Mayors against illegal guns ad calling for making private sales of firearms illegal. We covered this in depth here, and the big smoking gun of dishonesty is that they quoted Boston Mayor and MAIG co-chair Tom Menino in asking for this legislation. Odd given that his home state of Massachusetts doesn’t allow private sales, and all sales are registered with the state and require a permit. All this and we still have massive amounts of violent crime, and when guns are traced about 90% of them come back to Massachusetts. So what they claim this law will do has been proven false, and the results are the same everywhere its tried. When I mentioned this here in the video, a MAIG shill responded with the latest talking point:

@WeerdBeard While we are at it we ought to get rid of laws that make it a crime to rob a store too. Those laws haven’t stopped robberies in MA either. It’s just more infringement.Laws don’t stop crime. Am I right?So why bother? Get real. There is no right to deliberately arm a five year old child, there is no right to arm a criminal or a psychopath or schizophrenic. Just a desire for gun dealers to make more money and spread fear among gun users.

This comment is a little hyperbolic, but I’ve seen Joan Peterson and others make the similar statement. When we point out that the law is bullshit they ask us if we want to repeal the laws on other criminal acts.

Here’s the crux of that. Laws don’t PREVENT anything. They persuade and punish. Some people make it a point to stick on the right side of the law, others don’t. I disagree with Massachusetts Safe Storage laws, among many others, but I comply with them, and work to repeal them. But now others disobey the laws. Turn on your local news, you’ll see a story on a robbery. You think that criminal didn’t know robbery was illegal? You’ll hear about a rape. You think the rapist didn’t hear her screaming “NO!”? They knew it was bad, and did it anyway. In this case the law can now just punish them for their crime.

OK let’s look at the person’s examples. five-year-olds with guns. *yawn* still a youth with unsupervised possession of a firearm is illegal. Doesn’t matter if private sale is legal, or illegal, doesn’t matter if you’re in Massachusetts or Texas. The law ads nothing new to the table, except ad extra steps to people NOT doing something illegal. The law is pointless. People with mental illness owning guns? Well depends on that person’s history, but let’s say they’re a prohibited person for mental illness (substitute substance abuse, felony charges, domestic abuse, restraining orders, outstanding arrest warrants, they all work), it’s illegal for that person to have a gun. Background checks or not, Massachusetts, Texas, anywhere. The law adds nothing new for the cited problem, but it does infringe on the rights of those who are NOT a problem.

MAIG is currently making these videos.

Now fist up I have no idea what’s real and what’s staged in this. Still if we assume its ALL correct that the buyer is a prohibited person, and tells the seller that, and the seller makes the transaction, that’s a felony right there. Likely this is staged entrapment and the buyer is legal and lies about it. (FYI the laws are a bit convoluted on what is prohibited and what isn’t, so some people honestly believe they can’t legally own a gun, but they can…and there are people who have minor felonies in their past who never thought would make them prohibited) then this is an education moment.

Instead they seek to add yet another law that would make ignorant sellers like this unable to make a sale, but malicious criminal sellers wouldn’t notice a difference…and of course people doing nothing wrong would pay the price.

Amazingly MAIG put up this video too.

That’s how its supposed to be done, and again another law won’t change a thing. If this is really a problem (and honestly I have my doubts) the only solution is EDUCATION, not new laws.

Why doesn’t the anti-rights people push education? Easy A) That would show results, and they don’t want the problem stopped! B) Because they simply want to ban guns, and will tell any story they think will accomplish that.

So keep an eye out for this latest silly point, and keep them on the defensive.

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Great Report

Fast and Furious was NOT a Botched operation. There was NEVER an attempt to do ANYTHING but allow these guns into the hands of criminals so they could be retrieved at crime scenes. The purpose was to artifically create a problem with gun sales that the BATFE could “Fix” with more enforcement and regulation.

More here.

This story comes to me via the BLNN, the Bubblehead Les News Network.

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Our Opposition

He’s babbling about the “Gunshow Loophole” which has nothing to do with Gun Shows, and isn’t a loophole. He also calls Gun Shows “Unregulated”. Maybe the knives, books, MREs, and surplus clothing. But the guns? I can’t think of a single car that I can’t sell in the next state over. Yet a Resident of lax-gun-law New Hampshire, attempts to sell a rifle or shotgun to a resident of Lax-Gun-Law, and next-door Vermont, that’s a Federal Felony unless they get a licensed dealer into the mix. If the gun is a handgun the gun will need to be SHIPPED from New Hampshire to Vermont via Licensed dealers for the sale to be legal.

I could go on with all sorts of other fucked up laws that apply to guns but no other goods. I wouldn’t be doing a lick of good because this guy has already decided what he knows, and has decided its true.

And all of this in the backdrop of Project Gunwalker where the guns weren’t sold at gun shows, they were sold from Dealers to ATF and FBI agents, or the ATF DEMANDED the dealers sell directly to the criminals.

What’s the point on passing another law when the criminals here are the Federal Government?

Bonus points for his stupid stuttering, and “Automatic Assault Rifles”. You are my opposition, and I know you because you are stupid.

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